Revamp: Growlithe -> Arcanine

[SilentSentinel]

I don't think this one has been done yet.


What CAN be revamped:
- Movesets (TMs and levelsets) - For TMs, please post the existing list even if you're making no changes, it makes my job much easier.
- Abilities
- Egg Moves (POST WITH FATHERS, PLEASE)

What CANNOT be revamped:
- Base stats

We're doing Growlithe -> Arcanine in this topic.

Gen 3 info can be found here:

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-rs/058.shtml
http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-rs/059.shtml

I suppose I'll start with a first draft of a new level up list for both:

Move/Growlithe/Arcanine

Burnout/x/-
Bite/-/-
Roar/-/-
Ember/7/-
Leer/13/x
Odor Sleuth/19/-
Take Down/25/x
Flame Wheel/31/x
Soul Burn/x/31
ZigZag/37/x
Ambush/x/37
Agility/43/x
Flamethrower/49/x
Extremespeed/x/49
Temper/x/55

Abilities: Intimidate / Flash Fire


I feel like there's a lot we can do with Arcanine as far as moves, but I want to see how IB feels as far as how much this moveset is able to be opened up, if at all.

[ImmunityBow]

Oh, putting up the links is an excellent idea.

I'm not sure on having so many level-up moves for Arcanine. Many evo-stone Pokemon don't learn new moves at all, Extremespeed was there because it was very, very special and exciting to players when they got it. Maybe cut down on what is unnecessary and make Growlithe's moveset a little denser than before to compensate?

[SilentSentinel]

Eh, I was thinking about adding some more variation to the movepool for people who evolved it early.

Burnout/x/-
Bite/-/-
Roar/-/-
Ember/7/-
Leer/13/x
Odor Sleuth/18/-
Take Down/23/x
Flame Wheel/28/x
ZigZag/33/x
Ambush/38/x
Agility/43/x
Flamethrower/49/x
Extremespeed/x/49
Temper/x/55

Imo Temper should stay where it is.

[ImmunityBow]

I'm fine with Temper being there, though I don't think it's quite as "epic" as Extremespeed is. Here's a tentative TM list:

Growlithe:
05 Roar
06 Toxic
10 Hidden Power
11 Sunny Day
12 Taunt
17 Protect
21 Frustration
23 Iron Tail
27 Return
28 Dig
32 Double Team
35 Flamethrower
38 Fire Blast
40 Aerial Ace
42 Facade
43 Secret Power
44 Rest
45 Attract
46 Thief
50 Overheat
51 Flare
52 False Swipe
53 Focus Sight
55 Endure
59 Soul Burn
65 Zigzag
72 Initiative
75 Sleep Talk
78 Substitute
79 Rocket Punch
80 Orion’s Sword

Arcanine:

05 Roar
06 Toxic
10 Hidden Power
11 Sunny Day
12 Taunt
15 Hyper Beam
17 Protect
21 Frustration
22 Solar Beam
23 Iron Tail
26 Earthquake
27 Return
28 Dig
32 Double Team
35 Flamethrower
38 Fire Blast
40 Aerial Ace
42 Facade
43 Secret Power
44 Rest
45 Attract
46 Thief
50 Overheat
51 Flare
52 False Swipe
53 Focus Sight
55 Endure
59 Soul Burn
60 Megafriction
65 Zigzag
72 Initiative
75 Sleep Talk
78 Substitute
79 Rocket Punch
80 Orion’s Sword


Main additions to the canon moves I made were:
Taunt given to Growlithe and Arcanine, since imagining Growlithe taunting amuses me and seems fitting.
Solar Beam and Earthquake added to Arcanine. Arcanine seems like it could be good if only it had Earthquake. Solar Beam since it wasn't fair other Fire-type got it, right?
The only really controversial Topaz TM given is Megafriction to Arcanine. I just was thinking Extremespeed = lots and lots of friction.

[NyteFyre]

Hmm, do you really think people should be denied the chance to get Agility on Arcanine if they evolve their Growlithe early? That's one move i think should be also given to Arcanine, if only at a later level. Other than that, I'm fine with the movesets as you have them. I just fine it kind of strange how, other than starting moves, Growlithe and Arcanine share no moves. I can sort of understand why Canon does it that way, but I think at least one shared level up move wouldn't be too bad, would it?

The TM list seems sound, though there are probably others who know the tms better than i do, so idk. Well, shouldn't Strength be there under HMs? That's always been available to Growlithe and Arcanine.

[ImmunityBow]

For some strange reason we've always done HMs differently. If anything it'll be basically the exact same as canon probably.

[Noog]

Tentative Egg move list:

Cinders (Celsinge line)
Body Slam (Vulpix line
Safeguard (Vulpix line and Mareep line)
Heat Wave (Torkoal)
Fire Spin (Vulpix line and Flareon)
Thrash (Mankey line)

I'm not sure about Crunch, though. Can any Pokémon listed in the Topaz Dex from the Ground egg group learn Crunch?

[Tyrannigon64]

I'm not sure about Crunch, though. Can any Pokémon listed in the Topaz Dex from the Ground egg group learn Crunch?

The Topaz Pokemon that can learn it are:
Chiarame line
Polara line
Allufang line
Noctiger/Raiger
Huskii
Lupine
Celsinge

The last three can only learn it through breeding. I'll look up Pokemon from the other three regions later.

[Noog]

I've already checked the other regions; none of the Ground Pokémon used in the Dex can learn Crunch.

[ImmunityBow]

There's also Smeargle. I think replacing Cinders with Crunch might work out. Cinders doesn't quite associate well with Growlithe/Arcanine except for the fact that it is Fire type.

Howl should probably be somewhere on the list too.

[Noog]

Through Smeargle? I suppose that would make sense.

[SilentSentinel]

Crunch is a pretty good movepool addition, so imo that needs to stay over Cinders.

I like the TM changes you made IB.

[SilentSentinel]

Anyone else have anything to add?

[ImmunityBow]

Intimidate and Flash Fire are also just perfect abilities for Arcanine, so I don't think there warrants any change there... so yeah, I'm happy with how it is.

[SilentSentinel]

My thoughts exactly.

I suppose I will begin a topic for another one, seeing as this one is nearing completion.

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

I feel burnout should be learnable by level up. I mean, a loyal dog (or an enraged one, or one chasing a cat) will keep going and going until they can't go anymore, burning themselves out. Now Growlithe is a fire type domestic dog pokemon. See the connection?

[ImmunityBow]

It can switch places with Temper.

[NyteFyre]

I agree. I don't really see Arcanine and Growlithe as angry pokemon, more fiercely loyal.

[Cranky Guy]

What exactly does Temper do? Does it make the pokemon disobey it's trainer for a stat raise?

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

*facepalm*

Temper
Fire
BP: 85
Acc: 100
PP: 10

User goes on a fiery tantrum.
(Strikes 2-4 turns in a row, then causes confusion to user.)

[locknessjohnson]

I think that all in all i agree with the moves. learnable, egg and TM are all good and earthquake was a good add on to help it cover rock types and solarbeam for water. but i also agree with NyteFyre in that Arcanine should be able to learn agility on it's own through level up otherwise i'm in agreement

[SilentSentinel]

I'd really like to see Temper on there somewhere, as the move itself really helps Arcanine out. Temper is the only Physical Fire move besides the mediocre Flame Wheel that Arcanine would have a shot at learning.

[NyteFyre]

Hmm.....Why can't we have both? Arcanine is such a legendary-esque Pokemon that I feel that it should be able to learn both. It could be Burnout at 55 then Temper at 68? Or something like that. Of course, if Growlithe is too common, I'd rather Temper over Burnout.

[ImmunityBow]

My suggestion was to switch Temper and Burnout, thus putting Temper as a move relearner move and Burnout as a final move. I like this because Burnout feels a thousand times more "epic" than Temper, especially after Extremespeed, which is one of the most epic non-signature moves (along with Meteor Mash). So both would be included on the moveset. Currently Burnout is on move relearner.

[NyteFyre]

Ah, well, I suppose that could work as well.

[SilentSentinel]

Seems fine to me.

[NyteFyre]

So, everyone in agreement that this line is finished?

-raises hand-

[SilentSentinel]

Very nice. I think Barkrub (and by extension these guys) was one of the ones we needed for the .txt file.

[ImmunityBow]

Okay then, NyteFyre, do you mind doing the writeup? Barkub should have a topic in the Caldera/Kirant dex (http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/showthread.php?309-Barkub-Line), just compile the information from this topic and that one.