Revamp: Chinchou -> Lanturn

[SilentSentinel]

What CAN be revamped:
- Movesets (TMs and levelsets) - For TMs, please post the existing list even if you're making no changes, it makes my job much easier.
- Abilities
- Egg Moves (POST WITH FATHERS, PLEASE)

What CANNOT be revamped:
- Base stats

We're doing Chinchou -> Lanturn in this topic.

This line caught my eye here, should be a good one:

Gen 3 Info:

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-rs/170.shtml
http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-rs/171.shtml

I'd like to keep Volt Absorb and Illuminate as the abilities, but that's just me.

Levelset, take 1:

Move/Chinchou/Lanturn:

Bubble/-/-
Thunderwave/-/-
Supersonic/5/5
Shine/10/10
Flail/15/15
Water Gun/19/19
Spark/26/26
Confuse Ray/29/32
Take Down/35/39
Blinding Ray/39/45
Hydro Pump/44/51
Charge/49/60

Added moves that take advantage of Lanturn's ability to emit light, namely Shine and Blinding Ray. Brought some of the later moves closer together, as the original gaps were very large.

[NyteFyre]

Hmm....Anyway we could fit a more powerful mid-set move for them? Spark is ok, but definitely not the most powerful, or my favorite electric type move...Perhaps Thunderbolt? I've never understood why Thunderbolt wasn't a level-up move for this line.

Volt Absorb is really nasty and annoying, so I don't mind it staying on there, but what's Illuminate do?

Also, I always thought Charge was a mid-level move that upped Sp. attack for the next electric type move? Why would it come last?

[ImmunityBow]

Thunderbolt is nearly never a level up move for any line.

Illuminate attracts wild Pokemon. It fits way too well to not be there.

Supersonic and Confuse Ray being on the same moveset (I know it's like this in the canon) just seems really upsetting. Replace Supersonic maybe?

I do like how one of Lanturn's core strategies (Parafusion) is present so strongly in the moveset though, especially with Blinding Ray's accuracy reduction. That could mean Water Pulse would fit nicely, if you can find a spot.

And Charge simply comes last in the canon moveset. It's not very interesting though so replacing it seems possible.

[NyteFyre]

I'd say replace Charge, or move it down to Supersonic's place, and add in like Thunder? or a good Topaz Electric Move?

Edit: -wonder's how good a Parafusion Rain-Dance set-up would work-

[ImmunityBow]

Overload is the only really powerful Electric move, but I think we've put it on nearly every other Electric Pokemon's moveset, and it doesn't fit particularly well here.

[NyteFyre]

Water Pulse, like you said, could probably just take Supersonic's spot, and Charge could be moved down to make Hydro Pump seem more final, or something similar to that.

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

Bubble/-/-
Thunderwave/-/-
Water Pulse/5/5
Shine/10/10
Flail/15/15
Water Gun/19/19
Spark/26/26
Confuse Ray/29/32
Take Down/35/39
Blinding Ray/39/45
Charge/44/51
Hydro Pump/49/60
Seems to be what you're suggesting Nyte... Something seems wrong :P


Bubble/-/-
Thunderwave/-/-
Confuse Ray/5/5
Shine/10/10
Flail/15/15
Water Gun/19/19
Spark/26/26
Water Pulse/29/32
Charge/35/39
Blinding Ray/39/45
Take Down/44/51
Hydro Pump/49/60

IMO, charge should thematically be before Blinding Ray, and take down seems to need more bulk than Chinchou/Lanturn has to me.

[NyteFyre]

lol, my bad. I didn't mean to put it that far down. I just meant to move it farther down than the top, and to put Water Pulse in the middles somewhere.

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

How about:

Bubble/-/-
Thunderwave/-/-
Confuse Ray/5/5
Flail/10/10
Shine/15/15
Water Gun/19/19
Spark/26/26
Water Pulse/29/32
Charge/35/39
Blinding Ray/39/45
Take Down/44/51
Hydro Pump/49/60

Switched Flail and Shrine, since lvl 10 shine seems a bit op.

[NyteFyre]

Why not put Water Gun at 10? 19 just seems a little late for such a low power move that has no side effects..

so it'd go:

Water Gun/10/10
Shine/15/15
Flail/19/19

Flail also seems a little OP at 10. Water gun seems to be the best solution to me.

[ImmunityBow]

Water Gun first definitely. It needs its representative Water move earlier than level 19. How is Shine OP early though? It's not STAB, it's just a 40 BP Light attack.

[NyteFyre]

Probably from the fact that many early pokemon aren't particularly resistant or weak to light type attacks? idk. Maybe he was thinking it was a different move?

[SilentSentinel]

So far I like BTG's moveset, but with Nyte's order for those three moves, like this:


Bubble/-/-
Thunderwave/-/-
Confuse Ray/5/5
Water Gun/10/10
Shine/15/15
Flail/19/19
Spark/26/26
Water Pulse/29/32
Charge/35/39
Blinding Ray/39/45
Take Down/44/51
Hydro Pump/49/60

The only problem I have here is that we end up with 5 attacking moves in a row in Water Gun, Shine, Flail, Spark, and Water Pulse.

[ImmunityBow]

You could place Charge at level 19, Take Down at level 35, and Flail at level 44.

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

With shine, it's more the fact that it lowers acc. The only move I could find that did that so early on was Mud-Slap, which is way below 40 BP.

[NyteFyre]

I agree with IB's solution to SS's problem. It'd move it down to where I expect moves like Charge to be, and is there close enough to give Spark the boost it needs to be a more viable mid-level attack. Bringing Flail up some is also nice.

[SilentSentinel]

Like this?

Bubble/-/-
Thunderwave/-/-
Confuse Ray/5/5
Water Gun/10/10
Shine/15/15
Charge/19/19
Spark/26/26
Water Pulse/29/32
Take Down/35/39
Blinding Ray/39/45
Flail/44/51
Hydro Pump/49/60

I like that, actually. Charge being there seems like a build-up for getting Spark. Anyway, I think I'll work on Egg Moves now. This line's Egg move list is tiny, only 3 moves in canon. One of the moves (Amnesia) wont work with Topaz. Luckily there's some decent stuff to add from Topaz. They get some good compatible lines in Echoise and Trillogill.

Egg Moves:
Flail (Trillogill)
Screech (Quiisord)
Dive (Echoise)
Psybeam (Remoraid)
Water Wall (Tsunall)
Cascade (Tidesale)

I think I made it interesting in that each evolution of Trillogill can pass on a unique Egg Move.

[NyteFyre]

That seems fine, but why would Flail be both a level-up and an Egg move? As well, any thoughts on Chain-Breeding? Maybe Riptide could be Chain bred onto Lanturn.

One last thing: it should be Cascade (Tidasale)

[ImmunityBow]

Riptide on Lanturn would be a really nice moveset addition, but it wouldn't really be chain bred if Lanturn is in the Water 2 Egg Group, as it would just directly breed off of others in that group.

[NyteFyre]

true....but I was simply thinking that it could be another move from the Echoise line, to break up all the Trillogil Fathers. I still don't see Flail as a viable egg move for a pokemon that already learns it via level-up.

[SilentSentinel]

The only reason I kept Flail on was because Flail is one of the Egg moves in canon. We should try to keep most of the canon egg moves if they have viable fathers, considering that Lanturn only had 3 EMs to start with.

On a side note, Riptide can be bred from Quiisord as well if we go that route, but that brings up the whole issue of Trillogill line fathers.

However, I'll note that Qwilfish is a Water 2 with no moves on the list. We could give Qwilfish Riptide and have both lines capable of passing the move.

[NyteFyre]

That could work, I suppose. Would make Qwilfish a little more useful, while simultaneously giving this line the variety it needs.

[Noog]

For TMs, maybe:

03 Water Pulse
06 Toxic
07 Hail
10 Hidden Power
13 Ice Beam
14 Blizzard
15 Hyper Beam
17 Protect
21 Frustration
24 Thunderbolt
25 Thunder
27 Return
32 Double Team
33 Reflect
34 Shock Wave
42 Facade
43 Secret Power
44 Rest
45 Attract
63 Water Wall
76 Tempest*
77 Overload*
78 Substitute
79 Rocket Punch
80 Orion’s Sword

*Only compatible with Lanturn.

Not sure about Tempest, though.

[SilentSentinel]

I don't really think Tempest fits, but otherwise I like it.

[ImmunityBow]

Tempest definitely doesn't fit.

I don't quite understand your train of thought with Qwilfish. Are you just trying to create additional Riptide fathers?

[SilentSentinel]

I suppose the idea is to get more variety in move passing fathers. Right now only 2 lines are capable of passing moves on to Chinchou, so adding Riptide to Qwilfish and making Riptide an Egg Move helps that.

[ImmunityBow]

Water 2 and Water 3 are in general pretty limited lines to begin with, but somehow Riptide doesn't fit Qwilfish for me.

[MeekRhino]

I'm not entirely sure that Chinchou needs any more egg moves, and I agree that Riptide doesn't really fit Qwilfish. I have no problem with only two lines passing on moves.

[Noog]

So no Tempest?

03 Water Pulse
06 Toxic
07 Hail
10 Hidden Power
13 Ice Beam
14 Blizzard
15 Hyper Beam
17 Protect
21 Frustration
24 Thunderbolt
25 Thunder
27 Return
32 Double Team
33 Reflect
34 Shock Wave
42 Facade
43 Secret Power
44 Rest
45 Attract
53 Focus Sight
63 Water Wall
65 Zigzag
72 Initiative
75 Sleep Talk
77 Overload*
78 Substitute
79 Rocket Punch
80 Orion’s Sword

*Only compatible with Lanturn.

Added Zigzag because, apparently, it's one of those TMs that pretty much anything can learn. Also added Sleep Talk for the same reason.

Edit 12/30/11: Added Focus Sight and Initiative to the list.

[ImmunityBow]

There should be Initiative and I think Focus Sight as well, since those are also on every Pokemon.

[SilentSentinel]

Yes, those two go on everything.

On the topic of egg moves, is the list with all the trillogil evos as fathers decent? The lines that pass on moves aren't diverse, but it still makes you choose between egg moves to get depending on which trillogil evo is the father.

[ImmunityBow]

I think it's fine. I don't think anyone will actually want to run Flail/Screech/Water Wall/Cascade Lanturn anyway.

Just a note. If the next line can be Murkrow/Harskrow that'd be great since they don't have Egg Moves yet.

[NyteFyre]

Agreed with all of the above.

[SilentSentinel]

Do Murkrow/Harskrow need anything besides egg moves?

(fyi I will be out of the country all next week)

[ImmunityBow]

Yes, Murkrow at least needs a full revamp.

[Noog]

Chinchou
Angler Pokémon
Evolution: Evolves into Lanturn at level 27
Height: 1'08"/0.5 meters
Weight: 26.0 lbs/11.8kg
Ability: Volt Absorb
Ability: Illuminate
Egg Groups: Water 2, Water 3

Chinchou: On the ocean floor, CHINCHOU's antennae give off light bright enough to be seen from sea level. This light is a drawback when hunting because its prey easily notice it approaching.

Base Stats:
HP: 78
Atk: 38
Def: 38
SpA: 56
SpD: 56
Spd: 67

Bubble ---
Thunder Wave ---
Confuse Ray 5
Water Gun 10
Shine 15
Charge 19
Spark 26
Water Pulse 29
Take Down 35
Blinding Ray 39
Flail 44
Hydro Pump 49

TMs:

03 Water Pulse
06 Toxic
07 Hail
10 Hidden Power
13 Ice Beam
14 Blizzard
15 Hyper Beam
17 Protect
21 Frustration
24 Thunderbolt
25 Thunder
27 Return
32 Double Team
33 Reflect
34 Shock Wave
42 Facade
43 Secret Power
44 Rest
45 Attract
53 Focus Sight
63 Water Wall
65 Zigzag
72 Initiative
75 Sleep Talk
78 Substitute
79 Rocket Punch
80 Orion’s Sword

Lanturn
Light Pokémon
Evolution: Final Stage
Height: 3'11"/1.2 meters
Weight: 50.0kg/22.7kg
Ability: Volt Absorb
Ability: Illuminate
Egg Groups: Water 2, Water 3

Lanturn: LANTURN's antenna brightens as it gathers electrons from sea water at the bottom of the ocean. It lights the way of divers, showing them interesting landmarks it has previously seen.

Base Stats:
HP: 127
Atk: 58
Def: 58
SpA: 76
SpD: 76
Spd: 67

Bubble ---
Thunderwave ---
Confuse Ray 5
Water Gun 10
Shine 15
Charge 19
Spark 26
Water Pulse 32
Take Down 39
Blinding Ray 45
Flail 51
Hydro Pump 60

TMs:

03 Water Pulse
06 Toxic
07 Hail
10 Hidden Power
13 Ice Beam
14 Blizzard
15 Hyper Beam
17 Protect
21 Frustration
24 Thunderbolt
25 Thunder
27 Return
32 Double Team
33 Reflect
34 Shock Wave
42 Facade
43 Secret Power
44 Rest
45 Attract
53 Focus Sight
63 Water Wall
65 Zigzag
72 Initiative
75 Sleep Talk
77 Overload
78 Substitute
79 Rocket Punch
80 Orion’s Sword

[ImmunityBow]

Amazing. Thank you so much!