Revamp: Chinchou -> Lanturn

[Cyndadile]

What CAN be revamped:
- Movesets (TMs and levelsets) - For TMs, please post the existing list even if you're making no changes, it makes my job much easier.
- Abilities
- Egg Moves (POST WITH FATHERS, PLEASE)

What CANNOT be revamped:
- Base stats
I decided that Chinchou and Lanturn would be a nice change from Koffing and Weezing, since they probably have some potential for Light type moves.

You can use this (http://serebii.net/pokedex-rs/170.shtml) and this (http://serebii.net/pokedex-rs/171.shtml) for reference.

Also, here's a list of the pokemon that I think still need revamps.
081. Zangoose
083. Seviper
095. Slowpoke
096. Slowbro
097. Slowking
099. Remoraid
100. Octillery
102. Smeargle
105. Absol
109. Corphish
110. Crawdaunt
111. Ditto
114. Togepi
115. Togetic
131. Misdreavus
136. Qwilfish
137. Tangela
142. Rhyhorn
143. Rhydon
147. Scyther
148. Scizor
173. Chinchou
174. Lanturn
175. Relicanth
200. Jirachi

[ImmunityBow]

Blinding Ray would seem to fit, Water Wall fits with the generally supporting moveset. Cascade is pretty underrepresented I think. Light Wave is a pretty great fit. Spectral Ray is fine, Quickbolt is fine, Riptide is fine, Shine is fine, Tidal Wave (underrepresented I think). Overload I think doesn't fit.

[Cyndadile]

I particularly like Blinding Ray, Water Wall, Cascade, Light Wave, Tidal Wave. Not so sure about Quickbolt.

[ImmunityBow]

I like Shine as a lower-level move, since most of those have pretty high base power and so would permeate the upper levels of the moveset.

[Tyrannigon64]

Looking over the movesets in different generations, I noticed that they learn BubbleBeam in Gen IV, but not in Gen III. Should we have them learn BubbleBeam?

[NyteFyre]

It's a decent move, so why not? I see no reason not to.

[ImmunityBow]

It might be hard to fit in with all the new light moves we want.

[Cyndadile]

If we're going to be cramming the movesets with light moves, is it worth starting with their 3rd gen movesets, or should we start from scratch?

[ImmunityBow]

It still gives us a good mix of support and low/mid/high level moves. I think it's better to find places to fit in or good replacements than to make something a little too jammed as some Topaz movesets have been.

[Cyndadile]

Chinchou/Lanturn RSEFRLG
01/01 Bubble
01/01 Thunder Wave
05/05 Supersonic
13/13 Flail
17/17 Water Gun
25/25 Spark
29/32 Confuse Ray
37/43 Take Down
41/50 Hydro Pump
49/61 Charge

Have at it. Could we replace Flail with a light move?

[ImmunityBow]

There's 8 levels between Supersonic and Flail. That's ludicrous for early levels. The whole set actually could use some infill.

Thinking:
9 Shine
21 Tidal Wave
33/37 Light Wave

Replace Take Down with Water Wall, add Blinding Ray at 54/62 and move Charge down to 47/57

[Cyndadile]

Chinchou/Lanturn Topaz
01/01 Bubble
01/01 Thunder Wave
05/05 Supersonic
09/09 Shine
13/13 Flail
17/17 Water Gun
21/21 Tidal Wave
25/25 Spark
29/32 Confuse Ray
33/37 Light Wave
37/43 Water Wall
41/50 Hydro Pump
47/57 Charge
54/62 Blinding Ray

Looks nice, but it seems bigger than the last few we've done. Is that normal?

[NyteFyre]

I like it, I think it works fine, it's just a bit rare for a pre-evolved form to gain levels into the 50s, with none that are specific only to one form or the other.

[Cyndadile]

Do you think there are any that would make sense being chinchou- or lanturn-specific? Both of them seem to have pretty similar capabilities.

[ImmunityBow]

Lose Blinding Ray, make it Move Relearner?

[ImmunityBow]

* = Lanturn Only
03 Water Pulse
04 Calm Mind*
06 Toxic
07 Hail
10 Hidden Power
13 Ice Beam
14 Blizzard
15 Hyper Beam*
16 Light Screen
17 Protect
18 Rain Dance
20 Safeguard
21 Frustration
24 Thunderbolt
25 Thunder
27 Return
32 Double Team
34 Shock Wave
42 Facade
43 Secret Power
44 Rest
45 Attract
53 Focus Sight
55 Endure
63 Water Wall
71 Statronome
72 Initiative
75 Sleep Talk
77 Overload
78 Substitute
79 Rocket Punch
80 Orion’s Sword

Added Light Screen, Safeguard and Calm Mind as additions to canon moves. Also, ideas for egg moves? Include fathers if you can.

EDIT: Wait, we already finished this:

Chinchou
Angler Pokémon
Evolution: Evolves into Lanturn at level 27
Height: 1'08"/0.5 meters
Weight: 26.0 lbs/11.8kg
Ability: Volt Absorb
Ability: Illuminate
Egg Groups: Water 2, Water 3

Chinchou: On the ocean floor, CHINCHOU's antennae give off light bright enough to be seen from sea level. This light is a drawback when hunting because its prey easily notice it approaching.

Base Stats:
HP: 78
Atk: 38
Def: 38
SpA: 56
SpD: 56
Spd: 67

Bubble ---
Thunder Wave ---
Confuse Ray 5
Water Gun 10
Shine 15
Charge 19
Spark 26
Water Pulse 29
Take Down 35
Blinding Ray 39
Flail 44
Hydro Pump 49

TMs:

03 Water Pulse
06 Toxic
07 Hail
10 Hidden Power
13 Ice Beam
14 Blizzard
15 Hyper Beam
17 Protect
21 Frustration
24 Thunderbolt
25 Thunder
27 Return
32 Double Team
33 Reflect
34 Shock Wave
42 Facade
43 Secret Power
44 Rest
45 Attract
53 Focus Sight
63 Water Wall
65 Zigzag
72 Initiative
75 Sleep Talk
78 Substitute
79 Rocket Punch
80 Orion’s Sword

Lanturn
Light Pokémon
Evolution: Final Stage
Height: 3'11"/1.2 meters
Weight: 50.0kg/22.7kg
Ability: Volt Absorb
Ability: Illuminate
Egg Groups: Water 2, Water 3

Lanturn: LANTURN's antenna brightens as it gathers electrons from sea water at the bottom of the ocean. It lights the way of divers, showing them interesting landmarks it has previously seen.

Base Stats:
HP: 127
Atk: 58
Def: 58
SpA: 76
SpD: 76
Spd: 67

Bubble ---
Thunderwave ---
Confuse Ray 5
Water Gun 10
Shine 15
Charge 19
Spark 26
Water Pulse 32
Take Down 39
Blinding Ray 45
Flail 51
Hydro Pump 60

TMs:

03 Water Pulse
06 Toxic
07 Hail
10 Hidden Power
13 Ice Beam
14 Blizzard
15 Hyper Beam
17 Protect
21 Frustration
24 Thunderbolt
25 Thunder
27 Return
32 Double Team
33 Reflect
34 Shock Wave
42 Facade
43 Secret Power
44 Rest
45 Attract
53 Focus Sight
63 Water Wall
65 Zigzag
72 Initiative
75 Sleep Talk
77 Overload
78 Substitute
79 Rocket Punch
80 Orion’s Sword

I like the TM list and Move List we have in this topic better though. Suggestions for egg moves were

Egg Moves:
Flail (Trillogill)
Screech (Quiisord)
Dive (Echoise)
Psybeam (Remoraid)
Water Wall (Tsunall)
Cascade (Tidesale)

Which I like and we can take into account when doing our movesets.

[NyteFyre]

This all looks good to me.


So, this was all done already, but no one noticed? Should we make those changes already suggested, and just edit the page?

[ImmunityBow]

The page was never created, which is probably why Cyndadile didn't realize it was already done.

[NyteFyre]

ah, how'd that happen? I think it's not in the demo, so that may be why I personally never did it. Was it done BEFORE the crash?

[ImmunityBow]

http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/showthread.php?1086-Revamp-Chinchou-gt-Lanturn

Nope, a year ago but still pretty long post-crash.

[NyteFyre]

-shrug- guess it just got lost.

[Cyndadile]

Oops.

So, are we going to just throw our new changes into the old pile and call it a deal? Are there any other things we should look at?

[ImmunityBow]

It looks pretty good to me with the moveset/TM list we made here.

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

But still, the old one was made with more active members and so should, in theory, be a better or equal moveset.
Anyway, we have the old one:

Bubble/-/-
Thunderwave/-/-
Confuse Ray/5/5
Water Gun/10/10
Shine/15/15
Charge/19/19
Spark/26/26
Water Pulse/29/32
Take Down/35/39
Blinding Ray/39/45
Flail/44/51
Hydro Pump/49/60

compared with the new one:

01/01 Bubble
01/01 Thunder Wave
05/05 Supersonic
09/09 Shine
13/13 Flail
17/17 Water Gun
21/21 Tidal Wave
25/25 Spark
29/32 Confuse Ray
33/37 Light Wave
37/43 Water Wall
41/50 Hydro Pump
47/57 Charge
54/62 Blinding Ray

EDIT: looking it over, NO. No way are we going with the new one! At least, not with Charge in such a ridiculous (spelling?) position. That and it fells like it's been stuffed with light moves for no other reason than it can.

How about:

Bubble/-/-
Thunderwave/-/-
Confuse Ray/5/5
Water Gun/10/10
Shine/15/15
Charge/19/19
Spark/26/26
Water Pulse/29/32
Take Down/35/39
Blinding Ray/39/45
Water Wall/44/51
Hydro Pump/49/60

Perhaps:

[ImmunityBow]

The old moveset I don't like primarily because there's 6 primarily damaging moves in a row. Maybe:

01/01 Bubble
01/01 Thunder Wave
05/05 Supersonic
09/09 Shine
13/13 Flail
17/17 Water Gun
21/21 Charge
25/25 Spark
29/32 Confuse Ray
33/37 Tidal Wave
37/43 Light Wave
41/50 Hydro Pump
47/57 Water Wall
54/62 Blinding Ray

Works better as a rearrangement? That way we don't have Tidal Wave just after Water Gun and Charge is earlier.

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

Hmm.
How about:

Bubble/-/-
Thunderwave/-/-
Confuse Ray/5/5
Water Gun/10/10
Shine/15/15
Charge/19/19
Spark/26/26
Water Pulse/29/33
Take Down/35/39
Flash/39/45
Blinding Ray/44/51
Water Wall/49/57
Hydro Pump/54/63

[ImmunityBow]

Spark/26/26
Water Pulse/29/33
Take Down/35/39
Flash/39/45
Blinding Ray/44/51

This is still 5 damaging moves in a row (Flash is being changed to 50 BP super-high priority). It'd be good to explain your choices. I do like Flash though.

[ImmunityBow]

Spark/26/26
Water Pulse/29/33
Take Down/35/39
Flash/39/45
Blinding Ray/44/51

This is still 5 damaging moves in a row (Flash is being changed to 50 BP super-high priority). It'd be good to explain your choices. I do like Flash though.

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

Wait... Flash is a damaging move now? I thought it was just a 100% accuracy acc reduction move?

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

Okay, okay. Thinking it over, Lanturn doesn't seem the type to be very physical (except in bed :P ), so I removed Take Down and swapped things around a bit:

Bubble/-/-
Thunderwave/-/-
Confuse Ray/5/5
Water Gun/10/10
Shine/15/15
Charge/19/19
Spark/26/26
Water Pulse/29/33
Water Wall/35/39
Flash/39/45
Blinding Ray/44/51
Hydro Pump/49/57
Confuse Ray fits better than supersonic because strobbing lights etc can easily confuse and both Mons have lights. Likewise Shine, Charge, Flash, Blinding Ray feels like a natural progression, with spark being a byproduct.

EDIT: Looking over the moves, doesn't it make more sense for Flash to be the accuracy reducer and Blinding Ray to be the one that deals damage? BR just seems conceptually more powerful than a mere Flash.

[ImmunityBow]

Flash doesn't deal a ton of damage. It's 50 BP. That's less than Water Pulse. It is however fairly more universal than Blinding Ray, and so I would prefer that the more applicable/interesting/competitive mechanic be on that one rather than saddling loads and loads of pokes with accuracy reduction.

Supersonic -> Confuse Ray is also a natural progression when you think about it, as was Take Down and Flail. Though I can't really imagine Chinchou using either of them really well so in that respect I guess I can agree with their removal in some respects.

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

True. Although I would class revamped Flash as stronger than Water Pulse as a accuracy reduction is more useful than a few turn confusion (Flash still does have a chance to lower acc right?).

So currently we have (swapped the levels and names to make it neater):


01|01 Bubble
01|01 Thunderwave
05|05 Confuse Ray
10|10 Water Gun
15|15 Shine
19|19 Charge
26|26 Spark
29|33 Water Pulse
35|39 Water Wall
39|45 Flash
44|51 Blinding Ray
49|57 Hydro Pump

[ImmunityBow]

No Flash is basically a Quicker Attack with 10 more BP in Light type (it has better priority than Quick Attack, which is its main gimmick)

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

Interesting. Still would that be enough to nescitate it coming after water pulse or should we switch the two?

[ImmunityBow]

Pokemon can have stronger moves earlier in their primary types, it's fine. I guess I'm fine with that. I want to know what the others think though.

[Cyndadile]

It seems good. I'd kind of like Light Wave in there somewhere, but I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to movesets, so it may be unnecessary.

[NyteFyre]

Either way is fine with me.

[Cyndadile]

So, the moveset seems pretty good. Which TM list should we go with?

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

Combine them both then see what doesn't fit. *shrugs*

[Cyndadile]

Combined.
* = Lanturn Only
# = Lanturn Only according to one, but not both, lists

03 Water Pulse
04 Calm Mind *
06 Toxic
07 Hail
10 Hidden Power
13 Ice Beam
14 Blizzard
15 Hyper Beam #
16 Light Screen
17 Protect
18 Rain Dance
20 Safeguard
21 Frustration
24 Thunderbolt
25 Thunder
27 Return
32 Double Team
33 Reflect
34 Shock Wave
42 Facade
43 Secret Power
44 Rest
45 Attract
53 Focus Sight
55 Endure
63 Water Wall
65 Zigzag
71 Statronome
72 Initiative
75 Sleep Talk
77 Overload #
78 Substitute
79 Rocket Punch
80 Orion’s Sword

So, Overload and Hyper Beam could be either Lanturn Only or not.

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

Hyper beam is definitely Lanturn only, generally it's only available for the last stage of a line. Overload... I can picture Overload being on both.

EDIT: I also don't see why Chinchou can't get Calm Mind.

[ImmunityBow]

Hyper Beam should for sure be Lanturn only, that's how Pokemon does it. I'm actually not sure on how much Overload fits. It seems like we're just shoving it in because Lanturn's electric type, but it doesn't really need it does it? It's such a happy Pokemon...

[SilentSentinel]

Bumpage.

Hyper Beam Lanturn-only for sure. I feel like Lanturn should get Overload. Not Chinchou though, it seems too small to be able to create that much current.

[NyteFyre]

I can see that working pretty well, actually.