Spriting Project: Gym Leaders/E4

[Reliability]

A few summers ago I made a backsprite for every single Pokemon to start them with a draft. I seem to work best with a discernible goal in place so I am now planning to get something much easier done: spriting all of the as of yet unsprited gym leaders and elite four members.

Basically my strategy will come in two parts:
1. Conceptualize each gym leader. This can either be in visual or written form.
2. The actual spriting.

Help with either stage of the process is welcome. Providing options is best for this project and will foster some really good work, as has been the case in the past.

I'm going to provide a short write-up for each character as a reference point for their sprite. I'm leaving out Froy and Therma as their sprites are pretty solid. I know that there are sprites for some other's floating around, but we can work through them if no other versions emerge.



FERNANDO: Grass gym leader. Very earthy, soft-spoken. I kind of envision Tarzan when I'm writing him. He doesn't exude much emotion, but is overall very calm and poised. He is not a stalwart defender of the environment; he is more a part of it than a protector of it.

JANE: Normal gym leader. A dancer. She prides herself on her strength, almost having a mentality like battle-girl trainers in canon. She is beautiful, but powerful and this has to be balanced in her sprite. I would prefer her to not be a stereotype dancer, so no tutus or leotards. It has to be there, but subtle.*She and Bella are rivals, so I would like them to be dissimilar in stance/hair colour and style/ ect.

BELLA: Poison gym leader. A chemist. She is exceedingly kind, but has a streak of anger against recklessness and carelessness. Just as Jane cannot be outwardly a dancer, I do not want Jane in a white lab coat. She is also beautiful, but is not trying to show it off. *She and Jane are rivals, so I would like them to be dissimilar in stance/hair colour and style/ ect..

TRSITAN: Light gym leader. Tristan has strong instincts and great leadership ability. He is proud of his home city of Portwind and is the city's champion. I really want him to exude charisma. If there is a flashy appearence to create, this is the one to do it for.

WOLFE: Dragon gym leader. Essentially a warrior. I don't want a knight either: Wolfe is more rough than that. He isn't polished, but he's confident and skilled. He is the city's protector and is well respected. He is not friendly, especially to Team Rocket, so please avoid a colour scheme dominated by a lot of black or red. I'm really feeling something mostly brown for him, to camouflage against the rocky terrain that he is fighting in.

CRYS: Rock gym leader. This is the environmentalist scientist. He studies the rock formations outside of Enechestra city and is concerned for the weathering that is threatening their survival. Alternatively, he also studies crystals. He is also strong and confident, getting along with people on a personal level. He has to be able to hike the mountains around his city, as well as be comfortable and presentable in the public sphere. He is concerned with practicality and appearance, and he needs to show that.

GERAD: Electric gym leader. A scientist/inventor. Also needs to exude charisma. He is not a standard canon scientist--he's got a big personality and a bigger ego. He built a floating city, so yeah. I would not completely mind him in a lab coat, but he needs to look casual. Nothing he does is a big deal to him, there is always something more exciting in his mind.

CHRISTINA: Ice gym leader. She is bluntly honest, and comes off a little cold at first, but warms up over time. She is extremely guarded against outsiders, as well as in battle. Dress her for the cold: some Ice gym leaders in canon do not look prepared for the elements *cough*Candice*cough*, but Skobeloff Town is cold. Christina has to be prepared.

OSIRO: Ground gym leader. Very wise, bordering on sage-like. He isn't old, long-beard kind of thing, but he is at the very least old soul-d. I'm toying with how he looks. He could be plainly Egyptian, like a left-over relic of the past, or he could be an archaeologist who lives in the ruins to study the culutre. TBH, it depends on how people want to see him. There is a theme of academics (Therma, Bella, Crys, Gerad), so having him as part of that stream might be cool.

LAYLA; Dark gym leader. She has to be in black or dark grey, preferably some sort of dress. I would like it if she weren't looking at the player, or her face was in shadows. She feels abandoned and locked away at the bottom of the sea. She is very powerful because of it, but she has worn away all of her other purposes except power, embracing it because that is what people seem to fear in her. I wouldn't like there to be any colour here, but if one is required, a very dark blue is the only real option.


GREYSON: Steel elite four. He is the token old member of the E4. He talks about resistance over time, so he ought to be strong looking despite his age.

TORI: Water elite four. She talks about gaining experience over time from each battle she particiaptes in, like a river. I imagine her very water-spirity. I've already made a really bad-ass looking sprite for her (which you can see on the site), but if something else is produced we can compare and decide.

MYRNA: Ghost elite four. A child. She is essentially not actually real, but a Mirust posing as a human. Mirust/Ferrain's pallet should be the basis for her clothes, which should be as ghostly as possible.

A note on pallets: Other than the things I have mentioned in specific sections, certain colours need to be noted for general use. Black with red accents is off limits, as this to closely links the character to Team Rocket. So too is white and gold/yellow combination forbidden. I would also like to avoid any entirely black outfits for anyone except Layla, to make her stand out a little more.

[ImmunityBow]

I feel like Layla would benefit more from a deep purple. Not "poison purple" but something less saturated and deeper.

Tristan I thought could be very much the Paladin. Unfortunately that puts him into grey and gold, but perhaps mithril-style blue and gold would work out?

[NyteFyre]

Well, it's good to see at least one of us can set goals, and actually plan to go through with them. And actually provide some work for the game.

I believe there was some concept art floating around of Fernando, that I know for sure IB helped with. I'd say find that, and work from there, as I remember it was quite good, but needed polish.

Perhaps Jane could wear simple jeans and a T-Shirt. She is the Norma gym leader, after all. Perhaps she could have the purple half of the Rivalry Orb as a necklace, or a design on her T-Shirt.

Bella, unfortunately, I immediately see in the vein of either Singed or Cassiopeia from LoL. If anything, could she maybe carry around a large bottle on her back, or have a small one in hand? I love little references.

Wolfe, I can see as Tribal, with some kind of pelt on his back. That, or similar to Drake of the Elite 4, captain's hat with one scar over his right eye. I know that second will be immediately shot down, but i like it anyway.

[Reliability]

I did some concept drawings for Jane and Bella.
http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=861
My thought process was to let Jane be a little more organic and simple. As Nyte said: she is the normal gym leader and being a dancer likely wouldn't be wearing too much. Her half of the Rivalry orb in on a necklace. She has a long, tunic thing that I'd probably make beige, and black leggings.
Bella I tried to put into a structured jacket, as well as a tunic similar to Jane's underneath. Her half of the Rivalry Orb is pinned to her jacket. I didn't have any ideas for her pants and shoes, so I went generic for this first draft.

They are meant to be pretty opposite. Jane's clothes are simple, while Bella's are more complicated. But there are still similarities, as though they were once friends who had a falling out.

[ImmunityBow]

I guess the main thing with Bella is that she doesn't have anything screams poison at you. Like thorns or vents or something. The simplest addition I can think of is a flu mask, but that might not read that well. Otherwise, it'd be great if we could have poses that aren't just standing poses.

[Silver]

Maybe draw some flowers hanging from her pocket, purple-ish hair, Drakodo plush hanging off trousers, that kind of thing?

[ImmunityBow]

Alright, I have something like a Layla concept I whipped up in an hour and a half. I managed to acquire a tablet and am currently trying to get used to it. I haven't been able to do anything with pen pressure yet but sketchy stuff has been okay. As for Layla, I'm willing to make a thousand changes, but if you're going to criticize, make it comprehensive since I basically just have to redraw her to change anything. If the proportions or other simple quality things are off, you can mention it but it's not really going to change anything since that'd be fixed in the sprite. That could actually be the rule for all non-site concepts.

In any case, here it is.

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/1449/laylar.png

[Reliability]

The tiara and the pink at her waist I think are a little much, I'd rather she be more simple. The star detail is nice and I really like the candle. My only other suggestions are just colour related (generally darker, black hair instead of brown) and not necessary to the concept so much.

[Cyndadile]

I think Jane and Bella look great, especially because they seem to complement each other. Some sort of thorn-type thing might make Bella more poison-like, but Jane definitely seems right for a normal-type leader.

For Layla, I really like the dress color and the candle. Are the colors inspired by the Umbra Crest? Also, I kind of like the tiara, but I'm not entirely sure what to think of the pink at her waist. Is that a common article in some culture?

[ImmunityBow]

Yes, the inspiration is Umbra Crest. the wraps around her waist were me just wanting to break up the monotony with something that wasn't a sash or belt.

[Reliability]

I like the design of it, I just think it's too light.

[ImmunityBow]

I had several darker versions of Layla and then I bsod'd and lost them all. Whoops. First time I've had a BSOD in 10 years, too...

Here's a concept I drew up of Grayson.
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/862/graysonm.png

I realize that I've been clamoring for "Paladin Tristan" but after thinking about it some more I feel like he'd look best in a white suit with a cape. Still very self-righteous but less Orion-Defender-screamy. I also have thoughts on Gerad: kind of inspector-gadgetty. No hat, but kind of an actiony pose in a trenchcoat or great coat with massive black gloves and a wrench in one hand.

[Cyndadile]

The armor looks great on Grayson. But I think he might look better if he looked a little older; maybe a lighter hair color with just a bit of white peeking through.

I'm going to trust your judgement on Tristan, especially since Grayson seems to pull of the knight look so well, and I really like the idea for Gerad.

[Reliability]

I like the Greyson concept, and we can always ramp up the armor (my only qualm, it's a little simple for an E4 IMO) and make him older when we sprite him.

[ImmunityBow]

Yeah, I can see how that kind of whitish sideburns and salt and pepper beard look could be great on Greyson. I feel like adding a lot of random trim on his armor will make it rather hard to sprite. The flecks of white in his hair might also be tough too, so we'll have to see when that comes. I also think that often the E4 have the simplest designs and are the least developed characters in a Pokemon game. I do think that ramping up a bit on their complexity to make them feel more special and unique is a direction we might want to head in (we're already kind of doing that for Tristan, anyway).

[4th Chaser]

TRSITAN: The Light gym leader! Its not great! but tell me if it needs improvements and what? http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s640/HiddenKS/PokemonTrainerTristan_zpsaf62232e.png

[Cyndadile]

I really like the effect that the bright blue on the shirt has, but isn't he a bit young? That would be fine for a Gym Leader, but keep in mind that Tristan's also going to be moving on to the Elite Four.

[ImmunityBow]

I've also seen those pants somewhere before. Hmm...

[Blade Flight]

I've also seen those pants somewhere before. Hmm...

As have I. It's a recolored sprite, IB. It reminds me of one of our Cosplayer Trainers...I don't remember what it exactly was, but it was whatever the Mew Cosplayer girl was based on.

[Silver]

Is that a recolored Aaron (D/P E4) sportin' a D/P youngster cap?

[4th Chaser]

It is, I mixed a few sprites :\ I thought it looked pretty good. but hey, sorry.

[Reliability]

Mixing sprites is okay, but only to a degree. We don't want our sprites to look much like canon sprites, so scratching is a lot more preferrable to mixing. But I know: scratching an entire sprite isn't easy, so a little bit of mixing is inevitable. It has to be so that it is unrecognizable, so it takes a lot of effort.

Your sprite is especially obvious because of the way that the body flows together: the legs are at the wrong angle for the body which makes the waist unnaturally twisted, and the hat is sloped wrong for the head. It gives the sprite a really pieced-together look, which draws attention to the parts that are taken from other sprites. You also went with very recognizable pieces in the hat, arms and pants. You're getting a bad reaction because of this fact.

Take a look at this sprite of Alisa:
http://imageshack.us/a/img9/3550/alisasprite.png
This is a mixed sprite with a few custom pieces, but it doesn't immediately look like it. Making small edit to the pieces, and being choosy with what pieces you use is essential. For example, I used arms from two different sprites, the face off of another, and the body from another. Then I pretty much drew the hair from scratch and coloured the clothes in how I needed them to be. One of the arms I used I'm sure someone might recognize, but it doesn't come off right away because of how it fits with the other parts, right?

TL;DR how to fix yours:
1. try finding legs that face the right direction for the body. Edit them if you can at least for colour.
2. Ditch your current head and hat. I can see the intention with the sunglasses, but they are not at the right perspective, and are very difficult to discern from the face, which then looks really squished. The hat is very obvious. If you can't scratch hair or a hat, do your best to edit something or use something that is less recognizable.
3. The blue that you've used is very bright, and the outline on the left side is not really there, while the outline on the right is very dark. Work on your shading as well as balancing your outline colours.

[ImmunityBow]

Another thing I would recommend is to keep in mind the direction of the light source and to try to find out where light would fall if in 3D. That way you can add a lot more volume to the recoloured sections such as in the shirt and the boots.

I agree with Reliability that the less recognizable your sprite is, the more excited I'd get. It doesn't really matter how good a sprite looks, when I've seen something from somewhere before, then that's all I see in a sprite and it's hard for me to judge it on its merits when what was taken eats up all my attention.

[Cranky Guy]

Tried making Jane. Advice?

862

[ImmunityBow]

It's an attempt, which is workable. Main advice would mostly have to do with the bottom half of her body. Did you skip on the belts for a reason? She needs more definition to her legs and fet, mostly in the form of non-black legs with more shading and things, as well as more defined shoes and correct black outlining. It's a fine starting point though for discussion. Is this the kind of pose that fits her? should her face be larger or even her sprite in general? etc.

[Cranky Guy]

It's an attempt, which is workable. Main advice would mostly have to do with the bottom half of her body. Did you skip on the belts for a reason? She needs more definition to her legs and fet, mostly in the form of non-black legs with more shading and things, as well as more defined shoes and correct black outlining. It's a fine starting point though for discussion. Is this the kind of pose that fits her? should her face be larger or even her sprite in general? etc.

Did this one in less than 10 minutes, so I may have skimped quite a lot of detail, working on it now. Also, I skiped the belts because I have no idea what color they're supposed to be.

[MK94]

i'd be up for doing some gym leaders, so just tell me what needs to be done

[ImmunityBow]

Well, we've got concepts for Jane, Bella, Grayson and Layla so far. If you could sprite something based off of those concepts that'd be great! You can even use the same poses, or change what you want. People seem to want more detail on Grayson (or at least Reli does) so you can try some of that.

[MK94]

layla test out line didnt know dimensions so i made it 40x70
http://mk94productions.deviantart.com/art/Untitled-gym-leader-378032599?ga_submit_new=10%253A1371261788

[ImmunityBow]

Good start. Narrow her shoulders and increase the size of your head, and you'll be close to a good outline. Make sure you darken the colours from the concept, except where the candlelight touches. You have 80x80 to work with so you can afford to use a little more real estate on height.

[SilentSentinel]

Definitely a good starting point though!

[X-Antibody]

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg320/PapaLuLu27/gymleaders.png
Wolfe and Gerad concepts. Just quick lines and basic colours plopped down.

[Cyndadile]

That style seems quite fitting for an electric Gym Leader. Gerad looks great, but I'm not getting a huge "Dragon" vibe from Wolfe. He looks more like a rival than a Gym Leader.

Then again, I'm not sure how dragon-y you can get without starting to look a lot like Lance.

[X-Antibody]

I didnt really want to go with a signature cape like all the other dragon dudes because I feel like that's not really good for rocky terrain and Wolfe sounds like a super practical person. I slapped on some dragon fangs on a necklace, and a bit of purple on his hat and stuff to try and make him more dragon-y but I guess I could try for a more wild tree-jumping approach like they did with Iris?

[Reliability]

I'll try to sprite these sometime in the next little while. I REALLY like Gerad.

[SilentSentinel]

Love the Gerad art!

[Eduardo]

Wolfe's Cap remember me of Drake from Hoenn, and those fangs are very Dragon-y

[X-Antibody]

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg320/PapaLuLu27/wolfe.png
Threw together a second Wolfe concept - less modern, more secluded. Complete with fur and a bit of beard and stuff.
And while I was there I made Sugimori Art for Jane.
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg320/PapaLuLu27/Jane-1.png
Tried to give her an assertive and confident pose.

[ImmunityBow]

New Wolfe certainly fits his name. The connection to Dragons will be hard to make but since when were sailors Dragon users anyway, right? He reminds me of the police chief from Ace Attorney Investigations. I really like your Gerad concept, though let me bring up my unfinished version because it might demonstrate some ideas still. (I haven't been able to work on it for a while).

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/8039/8idb.png

I like yours better overall, but I think we could go a little bolder, especially in terms of the gloves, to make him more recognizable at a glance. Otherwise he looks absolutely wonderful and I really like the clipboard and his whole getup.

[Cyndadile]

IB, I really like that concept. I can see how a few elements of it could be used in X-Antibody's; particularly the longer gloves.

I guess I missed commenting on the new Wolfe, so here it is now; I actually think it feels right. It doesn't look a whole lot like a dragon tamer, which Lance seems to pull off perfectly. But it does seem to fit in as a dragon rider. He seems like the kind of guy who would live in caves, roughing it with his dragon-y buddies.

As for Jane, it looks pretty good, although I'm a bit curious about the skin color.

[embuddy]

Hey guys, Grey the off-task spriter here, here to give you a sprite for Gerald.
I focused on the fact that he had enthusiasm, and an all-around egoistical attitude, and also that he would look a bit casual. so here it is, feel free to upgrade the sprite if necessary. And yes, I have grabbed a bit of parts from other sprites, as was my Fernando sprite.
NOTE: Do not consider me a spriter, I simply do it when im bored. Im good, im just not having that much fun with spriting. Ofcourse i can throw out a sprite every once and awhile though. :D
http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff455/embuddy/GeradTopaz_zps2eb6d6b1.jpg

[ImmunityBow]

It's well mixed, just super recognizable. Thanks for your contribution, it's a good way to help visualize Gerad in sprite form, but we'll probably need something a little more edited so you can't pick out the different characters each part originated from.

[embuddy]

Yea, ill do some work on the sprite to make it way less noticable though, although that is a pretty nice sprite it needs work, thanks for your feedback.

[Cyndadile]

The most recognizable parts are the pose and the hair, so you might want to focus on those. You may also want to check our current trainer sprites (http://www.pokemontopaz.net/trainersprites/) to use as a size guideline - I didn't actually check the height in pixels, but he looks a bit taller than the rest of the sprites - perhaps you could scale down everything but the head? I like the lab coat is nice, but I think the shirt shouldn't be the same color. It's also difficult to tell the pants from the shoes.

All in all, it's a good mixed sprite, and (aside from Barry) I can't entirely tell which sprites are mixed.

[ImmunityBow]

Yes, Cyndadile is correct. Try to begin with an 80x80 bounding box so you don't end up with too large a sprite. Currently the height is over 100 pixels.

[embuddy]

I reworked the sprite and took out everything, noticable. The hair now is more yellow and not so spikey, and the glasses now fit his personality a bit more.http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff455/embuddy/GeradTopaz_zps73906eab.png

[ImmunityBow]

Better, though still in need of some quality edits. The most glaring thing is that he seems to only have one boot! Did you forget to add the other one?

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

Forget the boot, turn that leg into a pegleg! :P

[Cyndadile]

The hair and shirt are looking a lot better. The necklace is also a nice touch, and all the proportions seem pretty good to my untrained eye. Like IB mentioned, he should probably have matching footwear. Other than that, the hands are a little funky. The one with the pokeball seems bent at an awkward angle, and the other arm looks a little like it was broken off at the forearm and is dangling straight down.

[Cranky Guy]

Made a Fernando overworld recently.

901- Base sprite

902- Overworld sprites

Thoughts?

[ImmunityBow]

Looks really good!

[Cranky Guy]

Thanks IB. I also worked up a Gerad based on embear's unfinished sprite.

903- Base sprite

904- Overworld sprite

Thoughts?

[ImmunityBow]

The front and back look good. There's something a little bit off about the side ones though. Maybe the coat should flare out more?

[Cranky Guy]

OK. I'll work on that. In the mean time, I attempted to edit and fix embear's sprite of Gerad while incorporating some of the parts from your concept. I'll give you a side by side.

907- Old

908- New

909- New overworlds

Advice would be very appreciated. :)

[ImmunityBow]

New overworlds look good. The new sprite still would need some work I think. I don't think it's wise to cut out the gloves and wrench since those are pretty defining Gerad traits so far and make him different from the other Electric gym leaders so far. I also think the boots are maybe a bit too big since they come up to the knee but with the proportions of an ankle-boot which would make them extremely unwieldy.

[Cranky Guy]

I tried.

911

I wanted to have him wear gloves on both of his hands, but I had a few problems getting them to fit well with his right hand. I'll be working on a fully gloved version, but for now this is what I've got. Thoughts?

[ImmunityBow]

I like the gloved hand quite a bit. I'd love it if you could glove the right hand as well. You can make the wrench bigger, it's find if it's a bit exaggerated. The boots are way better but you could also thin them out a bit, especially on the vertical section.

[Cyndadile]

Loving the new colors on Gerad; great job there. The overworlds are great too, but there's one thing bothering me about Fernando's overworlds - his leaf-hat seems a tiny bit too high on the ones facing north (the back view). Could you lower it a pixel or three?

[Cranky Guy]

Finally made the necessary edits. I do feel like the wrench is slightly too exaggerated, but that's just me.

913

Also, I lowered Fernando's hat/crown thing by a few pixels as requested.

912

Thoughts?

[Cyndadile]

Love it! You may be right about the wrench being too large; any other opinions?

[ImmunityBow]

I like the look of him with both gloves now that you have them. This is Pokemon, things get exaggerated. I'd even suggest going further and making it even bigger if it currently looks off to you.

[Cranky Guy]

Hmmm.... Nah, I think I'll leave Gerad as he is. If anyone wants it edited I'll do it later. Now I'm probably going to work on Layla and Crys. Any suggestions?

Edit: Ninja'd a Layla with the framework by MK94 on the first page. Thoughts? Also, should Layla's overworld constantly face the opposite direction of the player like her battle sprite, or should she just face the player like any normal NPC?

914

[ImmunityBow]

She'd face the player. I wish Reliability were around to comment, I'm not sure whether I like the fact that she's so hard to distinguish with those colours. A little rough around the edges, a lot of the curves could be smoothed out.

[Cranky Guy]

OK. I'll work on it. If I have a lot of free time, I might make a bunch with different colors to see which fits the best.

[Cyndadile]

I definitely think it's too dark; perhaps a bluer dress would help make her more distinguishable? With the white background of the Pokemon battle screen, she'll look pretty much like a black blob.

[Cranky Guy]

I attempted to edit the Crys that was on the main site. Not sure how well that turned out. My guess would be super generic and boring. Any hints or items that I could use that relate to his character other than the gems?

918

Also, I just can't get a good colour combination for Layla. I've got only two that looked OK, and the rest were train wrecks. I'd love it if you guys could give me some recommendations.

917

Thoughts and opinions?

[ImmunityBow]

Yeah, I was having just as much colour trouble when I was concepting her, so I really haven't got a clue, sorry. Crys probably needs some discussion as to his theme. From the script he seems very grounded and down-to-earth (puns intended, of course). So plain and practical would probably fit. What are clothes that are very practical but not too common?

[Cranky Guy]

How's this for the Layla's colour scheme?

919

As for Crys, I think I'll leave him for now, or at least until we get some ideas for him.

[ImmunityBow]

I like it. Now she just needs some outline smoothing.

[Cranky Guy]

Finally got around to doing Layla.

920

Tried to smoothen the outlines, slightly edited her right arm and made the candle flame larger. Thoughts?

[ImmunityBow]

It is better, and I like the bigger candle flame. At another glance though I think she needs a little bit of neck room so she doesn't look like a football player. She is a little broad overall don't you think?

[Sev]

Wouldn't her face be illuminated by the candle? Try inverting the shading on her face. Also her head band seems off and her sleeves should be looser.

Also maybe have Layla hold a pokeball backhanded (?) in her other arm. I don't know much about Crys, but maybe a back pack or duffel bag with tools or crystals could be cool.

[Cranky Guy]

How's this?

921

Also, I completely remade Crys's sprite (sort of).

922

Thoughts? Also, should he have a large pick in his hand like Gerad's wrench?

[Sev]

I think you got his shape right,but the crystal pouch isn't working, and there is something off with his arms.

[Cyndadile]

Layla certainly looks slimmer, although something (I'm not sure what) seems off about her neck.

I like Crys's arms, but his hair seems a little strange. It might be that you're using a very light outline on it, while everything else on the sprite has a black outline. To account for Sev's issue with the pouch, perhaps it could be moved to his right (our left) side? That might also leave some plain space to throw a pick in his left hand, if you want to pursue that.

[Cranky Guy]

OK. I'll try and get it done tomorrow, right now I've got me some Bravely Default to play. :)

[Cranky Guy]

Fixed the outlines, made his legs longer, for some odd reason I also changed the colors of his armband and pouch. Also, I tried to figure out what was wrong with his pouch, but I just can't see it. Is there anything specific that looks out of place? Or should I just change it to a bag?

923

[Sev]

It just feels like the band around the waist is too thin to hold the bag. Also the crystals are too big/too many. No way a pouch could hold that

[Cranky Guy]

While that is true, as IB said, this is Pokemon and things often get exaggerated. Anyway, I'll try changing that tomorrow and we'll see the results. In the meantime, I made a new sprite of Jane to replace that miserable old sprite I made a while back.

924 - Old

926 - New

Thoughts?

[ImmunityBow]

It is better, much better. The angle of her dress is odd (think of where she's been moving and where the dress would flare up in that case)and she's overall too small (it's hard to make out the features of her face and her shins seem a little small in comparison to the length of her thighs, and look up in this thread at the Gerad sprite, the proportions and sizes are quite different) but it is quite the improvement.

[MewLoverEX]

Which of these still need sprite help? I could give someone a try, if needed.

EDIT: Tried my hand at a concept sprite for Bella. Kept the jacket with the pin and incorporated purple for the dress. I figured I'd give her light hair because Jane's is dark. Also, I was going for thorns with the belt, but if it didn't work, let me know.

http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab306/ultiverse/topazbella1.png

[Cranky Guy]

Which of these still need sprite help? I could give someone a try, if needed.

EDIT: Tried my hand at a concept sprite for Bella. Kept the jacket with the pin and incorporated purple for the dress. I figured I'd give her light hair because Jane's is dark. Also, I was going for thorns with the belt, but if it didn't work, let me know.

http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab306/ultiverse/topazbella1.png

That's really good. Probably better than anything I've done. Her face is pretty blurry, she's not wearing the white half of the Rivalry Orb and her hair looks slightly weird, but aside from that it's really good. The thorns are a nice touch, but they don't really seem to stick out that much. Maybe exaggerate them a bit? It's still better than anything I've done though.

[MewLoverEX]

Thank you. I think yours are good, too. The Orb is the pin on her jacket, like in Reli's concept. I'll work on it today and try to draw more attention to it and the thorns and fix the face/hair issues.

[Cyndadile]

Loving the new Bella; you definitely nailed her pose. As for the hair thing that Cranky Guy mentioned, perhaps he outline is a bit too dark?

As for what has/hasn't been done, here's a list, and I've bolded ones that I think are done or pretty darn close:

THERMA
http://cyndadile.webs.com/Gym%20E4%20Sprites/therma.png

FROY
http://cyndadile.webs.com/Gym%20E4%20Sprites/froy.png

FERNANDO
http://cyndadile.webs.com/Gym%20E4%20Sprites/fernando.png
http://cyndadile.webs.com/Gym%20E4%20Sprites/fernando%20overworld.png

JANE
http://cyndadile.webs.com/Gym%20E4%20Sprites/jane.png
Concept art:
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg320/PapaLuLu27/Jane-1.png

BELLA
http://cyndadile.webs.com/Gym%20E4%20Sprites/bella.png

TRSITAN
N/A

WOLFE
Concept art (I personally LOVE the one on the right):
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg320/PapaLuLu27/wolfe.png

CRYS
http://cyndadile.webs.com/Gym%20E4%20Sprites/crys%20v2.png

GERAD
http://cyndadile.webs.com/Gym%20E4%20Sprites/gerad.png
http://cyndadile.webs.com/Gym%20E4%20Sprites/gerad%20overworld.png

CHRISTINA
N/A

OSIRO
N/A

LAYLA
http://cyndadile.webs.com/Gym%20E4%20Sprites/layla.png

GREYSON
Concept art:
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/862/graysonm.png

TORI
http://cyndadile.webs.com/Gym%20E4%20Sprites/torri.png

MYRNA (beginning concept)
http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=741

[MewLoverEX]

Thanks, Cyndadile! Here's an updated Bella:
http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab306/ultiverse/topazbella2.png

Here's an edit of the Layla we have already:
http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab306/ultiverse/topazlayla1.png
And here's my version of a front-facing Layla. I figured putting a Pokeball in front of her face would help with her natural tendency to be mysterious.
http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab306/ultiverse/topazlayla2.png

[Cyndadile]

Bella looks fabulous!

I'm liking the idea for the new Layla, but I see a couple issues. It seems like she's a bit too thin, and her front arm (on our left) sort of looks like it's coming out of her chest. I'm also not sure about the pokeball. Perhaps having her just looking off in the distance is mysterious enough? It just seems like she's posing a bit awkwardly just to cover her face. I do think the front-facing suits her better.

[MewLoverEX]

Thanks! I'm liking Bella.

Is this any better for Layla?
http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab306/ultiverse/topazlayla3.png

[Cyndadile]

I'm liking that a lot! The only issue I can see right now is going to be choosing a background when we see her in battle - I'm not sure the candle will show well on a white/light gray background, so we'd have to make sure to use a dark battlefield. I suppose that makes sense for a dark gym leader, and Aquapolis City.

Cranky Guy, if he's still around, is better with sprites than I, so he'll probably have more useful feedback. Also, forgot to mention: good to see you around, Cranky!

[MewLoverEX]

Thanks! A dark background would probably work for her, but I went ahead and defined the candle more anyway, just in case. Open to any suggestions from you and Cranky.
http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab306/ultiverse/topazlayla4.png

[Cyndadile]

Looks great to me!

[ImmunityBow]

Hi MewLoverEX, really great to see you around again. Bella looks really nice but stylistically pretty different from all the other sprites we have. You might have to smooth off some of the detail work in order to make her fit in better.

For Layla, I prefer a more mysterious look to her. She's associated with nighttime and darkness, she should be hiding something, rather than smiling at us. She seems a bit small? Especially the head. It seems like you're struggling to fit all her features in but you can afford to just make her head bigger and fit it all in that way instead.

Nice work, just needs some additional tweaking.

[Cranky Guy]

Bella looks great! Try giving her some lighter outlines and see how that turns out.

As for Layla, I like both front and back facing stances, but the newer Layla looks a bit too derpish and happy. She needs to look more mysterious and serious. A good template would be the male protagonist from FireRed and LeafGreen. Also, you need to change the colour of her hands to match her face. Aside from that, it looks nice.

Good job on both of them!

Also, thanks Cyn. :)

[Cranky Guy]

Seeing as how the forums have received a sudden spike of activity, I decided to actually be productive. Made an overworld for Layla, side views coming soon.

929

Thoughts?

[ImmunityBow]

I like it. Might need some side to side comparison with other overworlds for size issues but it looks nice.

[Cranky Guy]

Here's a sheet of NPC overworlds I've done. Figured someone would find some use out of it. It also features a new Tori sprite and a slightly updated Layla.

930

[ImmunityBow]

Tori looks decent but from what I can tell needs a bigger head and a pixel shorter on her torso area. Layla also seems a bit taller and less wide than the male sprites, which seem closer to the size we're looking for. Gerad may even need to be a pixel shorter on his front sprite.

They look pretty good though, with the right size they'd be pretty much perfect.

[Cranky Guy]

Made some edits to MLEX's Layla, if he/she doesn't mind.

931

Edit: Finished working on Tori as well.

933

[ImmunityBow]

Tori is looking better. You've made changes mostly to Layla;s face, am I right? It's better, though I'm still not sure if the direction is right. From MewLoverEX's Pokeball-covering version it looks like she is facing sideways with only one eye visible, which seems a more fitting way to portray her. There's also something a little bit odd about her shape, now that I look at it properly. Either she's rail thin with a hoop skirt around her waist or she has a back brace and a very large hip to waist ratio. The proportions in MewLoverEX's back facing latest edit make more sense to me.

[Cranky Guy]

Should we just use the back facing one? It just seems to fit her a lot better.

[ImmunityBow]

I do like it, though it needs a couple of hair and head edits.

[Sev]

Anything I could do? I mainly like to edit stuff that's WIP rather than starting from scratch. Might be that I can't work on one project for a long period of time, but I digress.

[ImmunityBow]

The Layla sprite is WIP, so take a look at it if it suits your fancy.

[Cranky Guy]

Since I had nothing to do, I decided to take another attempt at spriting Crys. It's slightly lazy and it's not very original, but it's a good starting point.

934

Thoughts?

[Cyndadile]

Pretty nice, seems kinda rugged (which is a good thing for a gym leader of hist type), although the safety vest(?) he's wearing gives me more of a life-jacket impression. A recolor (something other than yellow or orange) could fix that.

He's less buff than in previous versions which is totally fine, since Fernando has biceps enough for all of us ;) but I think his shoulders should be a bit broader. As it is his hips seem quite a bit wider than his shoulders, which is unusual on male characters.

[Cranky Guy]

How's this?

935

Does it still look too much like he's wearing a life jacket?

[Cyndadile]

Yes, that vest looks a lot better!

[ImmunityBow]

I like this direction but I think he needs one more defining feature to make him look less like a generic construction worker trainer and more character-y. Maybe if he had a giant boulder strapped to his back or something? That might just look off though.

[Cranky Guy]

I tried making a Knight Tristan, but forgot about the 'no gold and white' palate and flashy appearance requirements until halfway through. Now I'm too lazy to change it up.

939

I'll probably get around to making a different Tristan soon enough, but I'd still like to hear your thoughts on this one.

[Cyndadile]

I'm liking the idea, and his facial hair is fabulous. With the armor, I'm not really sure the light source is coming from. Most of the lighter parts are on the right, but there seems to be a shadow from his beard on that side too, and another lighter spot under the beard? Or is that meant to be the color pattern of his armor?

[Cranky Guy]

I honestly have no idea what I was doing when I uploaded that. Here's a reworked version with better outlines, shading and colors.

942

That's better. Thoughts?

Edit: I just realized he's a dwarf. Here's a larger version.

943

[Cyndadile]

The lighting on that one seems a lot nicer. I think the outlines on the armor may be a bit too jarring though; generally they seem to be closer to the shade of what's around them on trainer sprites.

[Cranky Guy]

Got it.

Also, do you think I should just make the armor silver and use it for Grayson instead? I have other ideas for Tristan, but I have no idea what to do for Greyson aside from a standard suit of armor.

[ImmunityBow]

I realize I need to rehost my concept art. Here they are:

https://s17.postimg.org/rtrmytvrf/Gerad.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/rtrmytvrf/)

https://s17.postimg.org/yy9g7v30r/Grayson.png (https://postimg.org/image/yy9g7v30r/)

https://s17.postimg.org/4uuxfwzrf/Layla.png (https://postimg.org/image/4uuxfwzrf/)

[Cyndadile]

Definitely worth a shot, CG! And thanks IB!

[Cranky Guy]

Beep Boop.

944

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

Um... Does he dye his eyebrows?

[Cranky Guy]

Yes. They're dyed Grey,son. :p

In actuality, I just completely forgot to recolor his eyebrows after the second revision and now left it as is as a silly reference to his name.

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

Might I suggest less segments for the armor? You've a parting about half-way up the thigh, not sure I want to know why :P
Also the edge of the chestplate could be less rounded, since he's facing the camera.

[Cranky Guy]

Something like this?

945

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

Much better, although it still looks like he's wearing a silver life float. :P
Maybe remove the upper part of the waist curve?

[Cranky Guy]

I did some things.

946 - No waist thing

947 - Removed first waist curve

948 - No waist curve, changed legs

949 - No waist thing, shorter chest, longer legs

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

First and last are definitely my favourites.

[Cranky Guy]

First and last are definitely my favourites.

I like the last one much better compared to the rest as well. Anything else I should change?

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

The eyebrows?
The outline definitely, it's currently too monotone, and the hair's a bit odd... but I'm not sure how to fix that.
Might I suggest moving the chest crystal to a more iron-man position?

[Cyndadile]

I'm a fan of #4 as well, but I'm not sure my feeling on the eyebrows. They may be a bit much, but honestly at the moment I can't imagine him without them.

[Cranky Guy]

Had this from a bit back, decided to post it up.

954