Trainer Sprites

[Sev]

I believe this topic has been thrown off for quite some time now, so i decided to create this thread and decided to get this thing off our chests. I got Froy here so thats one down http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/7020/froygymleader.png
The unfinished are Rocket Admin (last one), Gym Leaderb Therma, Gym Leader Hanzo, Gym Leader Ferando, Gym Leader Mandy, Gym Leader Gerad, Gym Leader Christina, Gym Leader Osiro, Elite Four (1-4), and last but not least, The Champion! Ideas?

[Sev]

Therma is done!
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/2007/thermagymleader.png

[Tyrannigon64]

I guess that's a bit better than your Froy, because waitresses are less common in Diamond and Pearl, therefore not as well remembered. I've got what I think is a better Froy. It might just be my opinion though... http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=267 I think I kind of screwed up his arm. I'll fix that and repost. Also, are you able to guess what sprite(s) I used to make it? IMO, the harder it is to tell which sprites are used, the better the sprite (at least with trainer sprites, anyways). That's the only thing I dislike about your sprites; I immediately guessed Volkner and waitress as the main sprite used. If you can use an obscure enough sprite, change it in a drastic way, or combine it with others, it will probably be better for Pokemon Topaz.

Edit: Fixed his arm http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=268

[Blade Flight]

Sorry, Mefan, but we already have a Froy and Therma sprite. I believe they are not shown so that they are not stolen and such, however.

[Tyrannigon64]

So which sprites haven't been done? And is there any way of viewing the existing ones?

[Sev]

i guess on the site page but i took a shot at the champion http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/2586/championconnor.png possibly one of the most changed trainer sprites ever!

[Sev]

oh and btw, i'm not good at scratching unless ive used over sprites so...

[SilentSentinel]

The Champion is Vincent, who currently has a sprite, although if you can make a better Vincent sprite it would certainly be considered.

[Sev]

Thanks for telling me... it seems like all the sprites i can get a good vision of are taken XD Anyway i tried again at froy http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/7020/froygymleader.png

[Tyrannigon64]

I must say, your champion is much better. But there are some problems. The head is very awkward, both in its expression and size. It doesn't look natural. The outlining/shading in the purple areas looks kind of weird too. The most important problem, is that it doesn't give the feel of a champion. Champions usually have an impressive sprite that either says "I mean serious business" or looks graceful (Or in Cynthia's case, both). Although, with a bit of editing, and a different head, there is some chance your sprite could be used for something, maybe an E4, or gym leader, or a normal trainer.

Also, why did you bother to try again at Froy? PikangX just said that there's already a Froy sprite.

[Sev]

well i thought it could be used as another trainer? idk lolz

[MK94]

you should do scratch sprites instead because that gives game freak less of a reason to shut this down (not saying they will)

[Cyndadile]

The Champion is Vincent, who currently has a sprite, although if you can make a better Vincent sprite it would certainly be considered.

I thought we were changing it from Vincent.

[Sev]

You guys are making are changing the champion? Well, my champion sprite will volunteer! Won't you? Sorry, he's being a 'little' incooperative...

[Blade Flight]

No, IIRC, we are using Vincent if your character is female, and another girl character if you play as a male. I may be wrong, though.

[Reliability]

I thought we were changing it from Vincent.
It isn't official yet. Unless its made official, it will be Vincent.

No, IIRC, we are using Vincent if your character is female, and another girl character if you play as a male. I may be wrong, though.
This is also a possibility, but also not for sure.

Also, I would like to avoid having any trainer mixes in the game at all. No matter how good a mix is, it won't replace a sprite done from scratch.

mefan's list is also incorrect. Hanzo and Mandy are no longer in the game (at least not in an established role) and there are six new gym leaders that need sprites. And the E4 also have not been done. As well, I want to eliminate the mixes for the main characters at least, so Vincent, Simon and Bradley will all need new sprites. Obviously, all of this is wishful thinking until someone decides to try some out.

[Tyrannigon64]

Who are the gym leaders, what types do they specialize in, and where are their gyms located? I would search, but I don't know if whatever list I find is outdated.

[Sev]

It isn't official yet. Unless its made official, it will be Vincent.

This is also a possibility, but also not for sure.

Also, I would like to avoid having any trainer mixes in the game at all. No matter how good a mix is, it won't replace a sprite done from scratch.

mefan's list is also incorrect. Hanzo and Mandy are no longer in the game (at least not in an established role) and there are six new gym leaders that need sprites. And the E4 also have not been done. As well, I want to eliminate the mixes for the main characters at least, so Vincent, Simon and Bradley will all need new sprites. Obviously, all of this is wishful thinking until someone decides to try some out.
Can i use trainer sprites for hands because i cannot do hands...

[Tyrannigon64]

It's not a gym leader or anything, but I've got an idea for a trainer:
http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=297
Pyrokinetic! Without the flame, if anyone wants to edit it:
http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=296

[Reliability]

Who are the gym leaders, what types do they specialize in, and where are their gyms located? I would search, but I don't know if whatever list I find is outdated.
I'm leaving out Froy and Therma, since their sprites are already done.

Fernando -Roothaven (Grass)
Bella -Gallea (Poison)
Tristan -Portwind (Light)
Wolfe -Sedcini (Dragon)
Crys -Enechestra (Rock)
Gerad -Dynamo Gardens (Electric)
Christina -Skobeloff (sp?) (Ice)
Osiro -Saharan (Ground)
Layla -Aquapolis (Dark)
And for E4:
Torry/Torrence (Water) [NOTE: it was decided the spriter decides the gender of this member, so do whichever you feel most comfortable with]
Grayson/Greyson (Steel)
A Ghost E4 member that has yet to be named. [So again, if a good sprite comes up, that will help to determine the gender.]


Can i use trainer sprites for hands because i cannot do hands...
As long as we can't tell. It just means that your sprite will have to of a similar style and proportion, and try not to use hands that are unique that people might recognize. But there are ways to hide hands and remove them from the sprite, as long as its not done awkwardly.


It's not a gym leader or anything, but I've got an idea for a trainer:
http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=297
Pyrokinetic! Without the flame, if anyone wants to edit it:
http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=296
The head looks really DPP ace trainer-y. Also, it looks like the side of the body on our right is longer than the one on our left. The hair is also just a really awkward shape, especially with the black outline in a right angle on the left side.
Start with that, and I can take a closer look once that's done.

[Tyrannigon64]

Is this okay?
http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=299http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=298

[Reliability]

The leg on the right still needs work. It's still too long (it should be the same length as the other, if not shorter), and it shouldn't curve like that. If the knee is bent, it needs to be more defined, and the leg should be much shorter. It may be easier just to straighten it.

The hair looks a little too much like a helmet. It's also a bit too "yellow," making it look more fake. Something slightly more natural would work and still keep the fire idea.

[Tyrannigon64]

It won't let me upload the version without the flame.
http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=300

[Reliability]

I like the shape of the hair a lot. And the leg is a good length now.

The shoulder on the right is a little rough and could use some smoothing out, and that entire arm should be moved a little to the right, because it dosen't look attached right now. Also, if you could shift the legs to the legs just a pixel, that would help immensely with the hip that seems to pop out. The hair is a little monotone as well, you can have up to three shades.

[Tyrannigon64]

Are there any more problems?
http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=302http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=301

[Tyrannigon64]

Edit button expired. After looking it up, I thought that "Tori" might be a good name, because "Torry" didn't come up when I Google searched it, "Tory" is a boy's name, and so is "Torrence" (at least that's what I found from Google searching)
http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=303

[Reliability]

Awkward breasts are awkward. O.o

I hope you don't mind, but rather than try and describe how to fix them, I went in to do it myself. I tried to fix anything else that I thought needed fixing, but this was SOOOOOO much better as a start than the fire guy. If you keep creating stuff like this, that would be SO AWESOME!
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/945/torry.png
I'm sure we can change the spelling of the name. I don't think it would be a big leap from Torry to Torri, they both get the idea across.
---
One thing that still bothers me about the pyrotechnic is the hand that's held up. I've been trying to think of a solution, but I can't.
I would also make the same upper arm thicker, so add a line of pixels to the bottom of it. It might look horrible though, so try it out and see if it's worth it.

[Tyrannigon64]

I'm glad you liked it! Yeah, and thanks for fixing the breasts, I knew those were awkward and didn't know how to fix them. All in all, I like your version better. Yeah, just go ahead and edit anything I make if you think you can improve it. And I'll work on that hand for the pyrokinetic.

Edit: Here's the new pyrokinetic. If you want to, you can edit it.
http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=305http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=304

[Tyrannigon64]

I tried Crys, but it's not as good as Tori or anything
http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=306

[ImmunityBow]

One thing that bothers me about Torri, though she's a fine sprite, is how neutral her pose is. We've got lots of neutrally or near enough posed sprites already.

[SilentSentinel]

If anyone wants to pick up some tips for spriting trainers, I found a decent tutorial on Youtube. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

I can't really tell which way the pyrotechnic guy's facing. Is he facing away looking back at us with a broken arm? Has he broke his wrist and neck? Or is he a zombie?
Basically, it's too disjointed. The head, right hand (his), left leg and to a degree his forward arm are all in opposing directions.

[Tyrannigon64]

I just realized, I think Reliability forgot a gym. Which one did you forget? Or are there only eleven gyms now?

[Reliability]

Jane (Normal) -Kalypso
My stupid.

I'll try to edit the pyrotechnic, since its got some good parts. Crys will need a little more work, but I'll see what I can do.

[Tyrannigon64]

Oh and just to clear up confusion, it's a pyrokinetic, not a pyrotechnic. I believe pyrotechnics are special effects used to put fire in live band performances. Pyrokinetics are people who can create fire with their minds. Look up "pyrokinesis" on Wikipedia.

[Sev]

K like torri and th pyro dude btw im grounded atm

[Reliability]

Reviving to post:

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/1351/bookguy.png

and the original for comparison:
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/795/scholar3.png

I found the purple book was a little too much and blocked the upper arm connection. It moved the arms up to look a little more realistic (IMO) made both the legs and arms slightly shorter, changed the foot on the right and did some shading changes. I'm not really sure if any of these are improvements though.

[Tyrannigon64]

I like the new one better, but something seems weird about his left side, but I can't really figure out what it is...

[MeekRhino]

I like it either way.

[zeroality]

It is a definite improvement, especially the leg.

Trainer sprites always seem to be the hardest thing to get right but this one looks good.

[Sev]

the left hand could be holding the book better but it is indefinitely better

[ImmunityBow]

I'm not too sure about the changes to the books. The blue book now doesn't seem like it should be falling that way since it's so close (in the original it was thrown upward by the stumbling). Looking at it again, the removal of the purple book is fine. It's a trade-off between momentum and balance of the whole image, and the sprite is really about forward momentum.

I also looked at myself in the mirror and the arm now seems too short actually. My elbow almost reaches down to my hip, which is how it is on the original. The leg is now probably right if so many people agree, though I still don't think it was really overly long before. I don't mind it how it is now.

The shirt also seems maybe a little too poofy now?

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

Those scrolls don't look like scrolls. Call me dirty minded but I saw those and at first thought of something COMPLETELY different... >.<

[Cyndadile]

They are completely different... They are books.

[Reliability]

http://pokemontopaz.net/zero/maps/osiro2.png
This was an old idea for Osiro, that I'm hoping someone can take and make into a usable regular trainer. If anyone wants to try it out they're more than welcome.
-arm on the left needs more girth and made to look less awkward
-edits to the other arm for anatomical correctness (there's something wrong with the wrist IMO)
-slight edits to the hair and pants might be nice, since they don't really flow with the sprite and draw attention to the fact that this is a mixed sprite.

[Sev]

that's a job i can't put down reli

[Sev]

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5126/osirio.png (http://img140.imageshack.us/i/osirio.png/)

fixxed left arm only

[MK94]

i have a cool trainer sprite but i need to fix the face it should be up by next week

[Reliability]

Thanks mefan! I did everything else. How do people feel about it now?

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/3512/formerosirocopy.png

[Tyrannigon64]

Much better. I can actually tell that he's topless now (before I thought he was wearing a jacket or hoody).

[NyteFyre]

I say make the hand a little more notceable, or change it's position. Pokeball seems a bit awkward in that position. Only real gripes I have about it.

[Reliability]

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/5894/crysm.png
Finally got around to it. XD I'm going to try and make Torri more "interesting" in her pose next.

EDIT: Like this:
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/945/torry.png

[Tyrannigon64]

What is Crys holding? Also, Torri looks a lot better now.

[Reliability]

A crystal. I'm not sure how to make it clearer though.

[zeroality]

The trainer sprite formerly known as Osiro is good to go. What is he now? Generic or main storyline char?

Who are "Crysm" and Torri? I like Crysm but Torri's eyes are a bit off. Good otherwise.

[Tyrannigon64]

Isn't it just "Crys"? Anyways, thanks, I see it now. Why would he be holding a crystal though? Whatever, it's still a lot better than mine. Both of them are.

[Reliability]

@zero: Crys is the gym leader (rock-type) of Enechestra. Torri is a member of the E4 (water-type). And I would say a generic character for former-Osiro. Something along the lines of "fighter" or something.

@Tygon: Well, that's his name, so it seemed appropriate. The character I've been developing for him is a sort of environmentalist that wants to protect the natural landscape, so he would be collecting crystals to do research on them.

[Cyndadile]

Osiro is good, Torri is GREAT (love the hair/water thing there). Something seems odd about Crys's feet, though...

[ImmunityBow]

I think I'll try editing Torri's pose next. I've got an idea. There's something about the way Crys' face is put together that doesn't sit right. The sideburn seems too forward maybe? Somehow the head looks a bit too blockish.

[Reliability]

Some of the trainer sprites are smaller than the others, and I recalled that they were supposed to be like the larger ones. Thus:
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/5231/largerorionandcheryl.png
How are these? I've never liked how the "X" on the OD's looked anyway, so this is a chance to fix them after resizing. I decided to just do these, then ask if this a project worth pursuing.

[zeroality]

Excellent!

I hope you do mine too! I'm the orion admin with the white hair xD. I was sad when I thought we were going to have to scrap it.

So these are big enough now? I didn't compare sizes or anything.

[Tyrannigon64]

Orion girl's face is awkward, something seems off about Orion guy's X. Other than that, pretty good. And the parasol girl is AWESOME.

[Reliability]

They are of comparable size to the default female/Therma/Ho-oh Cosplayer, who I was using as a comparison for height.

I know about the face thing, but I didn't want to spend ages fixing it on the first go. I don't see whats wrong with the X though, so someone else will have fix that.

[zeroality]

Orion girl's face is awkward, something seems off about Orion guy's X.
I hadn't noticed that earlier, but I see it now. The girl's face is a bit too much of a square shape. I would try a more natural oval look.

I think what's off about the X is the fact that the sash on the right bottom side tapers off a bit too much. It is more of a trapezoid shape than a straight line. I don't think it should be entirely straight but it does get a bit too large as it goes down the hip.

[ImmunityBow]

An idea is to get rid of the Xs altogether and replace them with Os. That might be a little easier to pull off, and a little more fitting. I've never been a fan of the space suit outfits. This project is definitely worth pursuing though, so we have something just in case we can't think of anything better.

[Reliability]

An idea is to get rid of the Xs altogether and replace them with Os.
I was thinking of that. Something a lot smaller and simpler might look better.

When I get another urge to art things, I'll do a few more and edit the ones I've already done.

[Sev]

Maybe me and Reli could work together on the resizing thing?... I'm pretty good at making outlines... Here's a Blaziken CoS Player Outline I did for my fangame:
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/8017/blazikencosplayeroutlin.png (http://img833.imageshack.us/i/blazikencosplayeroutlin.png/)
EDIT: I did this as an example. Y'all can't use it not that you would :P

[Sev]

So now that we have the Orion ball done, based of of it the costumes should have O's on it.

[Reliability]

I'm probably going to model the men a little on what the women are wearing, just something clean and elegant. Then, I'll add a little crest over the heart or something. It won't be big or extravagant

[Reliability]

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/7783/ods.png
I tried a few things, but I think this looks fine. Opinions? I'll do the last two assuming that this is the right look. Each keeps his (or her) own colour, but I changed the yellow guy to purple to avoid being to close the yellow bands.

I also need to clean up the last two a little more.

[Tyrannigon64]

Liking the first two and the last one. The middle one, his eyes are too close together. The guy in blue's eyes seem a bit small. Also, the girl could be a bit taller, but she can work either way.

[Reliability]

I actually tried to make her taller, but the original sprite is shorter and it looked awkward. I might be able to get away with one or two pixels, but that's about it.

Also, I cannot figure out what blue guy's hand on the right is supposed to be doing. I may just end up respriting it.

[NyteFyre]

I noticed there is some white space between the first guy's arms. Other than that, I'd say he's perfect.

For the chick, her size doesn't match up with the others. Her skirt is a few pixels too low. Bump them up some, and maybe add a line or two to her shirt, and i think she could match the guy's height.

For the next 3, all of their mouths look so awkward, and hard to notice. I would just scrap the mouths, and go with a smirk, straight face, or frown.

Is it just me, or is the red guy floating? Also, his hair needs to be re-done. Make it longer, less...sticking up, maybe just buzz it, or make it simply clean-cut. Also, his left hand seems awkward. I could see that hand maybe in a pocket, or something to that affect. But then you'd have to put his feet closer together, or else it would look awkward.

For the Blue guy, the right half of his hair looks like one big clump, try making it a little more like strands, like on the left half. Other than that, I see no problems, aside from said hand you pointed out.

For the Purple Guy, i love it. Purple is an awesome color in my opinion, and fits him well. The eyes seem a little under-exaggerated. They seem too small. Try making them more defined, with like an outline, and maybe give them color? Black is too commonly used for eyes. Again, the hair is very bad. I know it needs work, though. Still, it seems like you were going for curly hair, but it didn't work. Again, something more clean-shaven, and natural would work better in my opinion.

Do they all have to have serious faces? The Orion Defenders may be out with their own ideals in mind, for Jirachi, but that doesn't mean all of them are in on it, or have to seem so cynical. Something more relaxed, or even bored would fit better on one or two of them.

Also, have you ever thought of putting facial hair into your sprites, Reli? I'd like to see some slight facial hair here and there, not all hiker beard, but just a little bit of shag on the chin, maybe?

[ImmunityBow]

Also, have you ever thought of putting facial hair into your sprites, Reli? I'd like to see some slight facial hair here and there, not all hiker beard, but just a little bit of shag on the chin, maybe?
*points to Reli's signature*

I think the main thing to fix with these right now is that they've got very shaky outlines as a result of the size change. There's just so much jaggedness all around (there was some of this on the originals too, but it's exacerbated) On the first guy, the vest pinches in at the pectoral on our left and his hair has too much volume, almost as if there's something underneath a wig or something. The second one's vest seems too right shifted (our right), and the faces seem scrunched, which could probably be fixed if the distance between the eyes and the eyes and the mouth were spread out by an additional pixel or so. The outlines though are really what needs to be fixed though. They just need overall more smoothness

[Reliability]

For the chick, her size doesn't match up with the others. Her skirt is a few pixels too low. Bump them up some, and maybe add a line or two to her shirt, and i think she could match the guy's height.

I actually tried to make her taller, but the original sprite is shorter and it looked awkward. I might be able to get away with one or two pixels, but that's about it.



For the next 3, all of their mouths look so awkward, and hard to notice. I would just scrap the mouths, and go with a smirk, straight face, or frown.
I completely agree. The mouths on the originals looked a lot better, so I'm going to re-reference them to see if they can be replicated on the enlarged sprite. If possible, I don't want to change too much of the original


Is it just me, or is the red guy floating? Also, his hair needs to be re-done. Make it longer, less...sticking up, maybe just buzz it, or make it simply clean-cut. Also, his left hand seems awkward. I could see that hand maybe in a pocket, or something to that affect. But then you'd have to put his feet closer together, or else it would look awkward.
He is a few pixels higher than the others, and I didn't notice, hence the floating. We have to put them into individual files anyway, so I figured it wouldn't be a big deal. The hair was unfortunate, and I will be fixing that. As for the hand, I think it looks fine, but I'll see if I can change it. Again, I don't want to stray away from the original design unless I have to.


For the Blue guy, the right half of his hair looks like one big clump, try making it a little more like strands, like on the left half. Other than that, I see no problems, aside from said hand you pointed out.
His hair was bothering me too. Will fix.



For the Purple Guy, i love it. Purple is an awesome color in my opinion, and fits him well. The eyes seem a little under-exaggerated. They seem too small. Try making them more defined, with like an outline, and maybe give them color? Black is too commonly used for eyes. Again, the hair is very bad. I know it needs work, though. Still, it seems like you were going for curly hair, but it didn't work. Again, something more clean-shaven, and natural would work better in my opinion.
I wasn't really going for anything, since I just enlarged the sprite and fixed it up. I think that it is fixable, but just needs to be smoother. I'll look at the eyes.



Do they all have to have serious faces? The Orion Defenders may be out with their own ideals in mind, for Jirachi, but that doesn't mean all of them are in on it, or have to seem so cynical. Something more relaxed, or even bored would fit better on one or two of them.

Also, have you ever thought of putting facial hair into your sprites, Reli? I'd like to see some slight facial hair here and there, not all hiker beard, but just a little bit of shag on the chin, maybe?
As for these, I've been enlarging mostly and editing out the Xs. That's been my goal here and not really to improve on the sprites all that much. I can probably do both of these (definitely the latter, potentially the former).

And like IB said, I'll be smoothing everything out. I was doing this late at night, in low light, with high humidity the night before an exam. I wasn't as attentive to quality as I probably should've been.

[Reliability]

Forgive the lack of transparency. My Photoshop is temporarily out of commission.

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/2606/orionx.png

[Cyndadile]

Seems good to me!

[ImmunityBow]

Yup. I do think that Xan's outfit clashes rather horribly with her hair though. Faded red + hot pink + bright orange seems just a bit...