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Reliability
02-01-11, 03:25 PM
This here is a guide to the gym system of Caldera/Kirant. There has been a lot of revamping to the system we are using, and a lot of the information is spread out in several topics and some of it is locked away in my head. If you get through this post at least, you should be pretty well informed.

The Pokemon Leauge of Caldera/Kirant has twelve gyms instead of the typical eight, because the region is actually two continents who, though tied together geographically, are radically different in culture and tradition. By giving each continent six gyms, the Pokemon League hoped to give a sense of individuality in each region without having to create two leagues in the area.

This is the gym order as it stands right now, with all applicable information. Please reference the map on the site if you are unfamiliar where things are.

(1)Froy
Cranewing City
Type: Fire
Badge: Glass Badge
Enables: HM01 (Cut)
TM: Flare
Embear Lvl 9 Male
Abilty: Guts
- Tackle
- Growl
- Flare
- Focus Energy

Growlithe Lvl 10 Male
Ability: Intimidate
- Bite
- Roar
- Ember
- Flare

Scorchion Lvl 12 Male @ Oran Berry
Ability: Flame Body
- Bug Bite
- Flare
- Leer
- Fury Cutter

(2)Therma
Softwind City
Type: Flying
Badge: Gale Badge
Enables: HM05 (Flash)
TM: Windwhistle
Murkrow Lvl. 14 Female
Ability: Insomnia
- Torment
- Peck
- Windwhistle
- Pursuit

Equill Lvl. 14 Male
Ability: Empty Head
- Windwhistle
- Confusion
- Perish Song
- Ice Beam

Gashawk Lvl. 16 Female @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Keen Eye
- Featherdance
- Windwhistle
- Aerial Ace
- Double Team


(3)Fernando
Roothaven City
Type: Grass
Badge: Vine Badge
Enables: HM03 (Surf)
TM: Cherry Bomb
Canileaf Lvl 19 Male
Ability: Night Vision
Howl
Bite
Double Team
Cherry Bomb

Phantern Lvl 20 Female @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Insomnia
Leech Seed
Toxic
Cherry Bomb
Flamethrower

Brontogon Lvl 22 Male @ Resist Scarf
Ability: Chlorophyll
Magnitude
Rock Tomb
Cherry Bomb
Grasswhistle

(4)Jane
Kalypso City
Type: Normal
Badge: Staccato Badge
TM: Statronome
Firrel Lvl 26 Female
Ability: Pickup
Flamethrower
Quick Attack
Statronome
Zigzag

Miltank Lvl 27 Female
Ability: Thick Fat
Milk Drink
Attract
Stomp
Statronome

Tauros Lvl 27 Male @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Overdrive
Horn Attack
Scary Face
Statronome
Pursuit

Zantilidae Lvl 28 Male @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Immunity
Swords Dance
Slash
Pursuit
Brick Break


(5)Bella
Gallea City
Type: Poison
Badge: Elixir Badge
TM: Venom Strike
Kondria Lvl 30 Female
Ability: Poison Point
Sleep Powder
Venom Strike
Fake Tears
Giga Drain

Drakodo Lvl 32 Male @ Poison Barb
Ability: Dragon Blood
Venom Strike
Dragonbreath
Bite
Screech

Pythang Lvl 34 Female @ Corrosive Acid
Ability: Shed Skin
Venom Strike
Crunch
Glare
Ice Beam


(6)Tristan
Portwind City
Type: Light
Badge: Shining Badge
Enables: HM06 (Rock Smash)
TM: Holy Fist
Seraph Lvl 37 Female @ Sacred Veil
Ability: Serene Grace
Purify
Lovely Kiss
Light Wave
Light Screen

Purior Lvl 40 Female @ Blessed Ankh
Ability: Last Effort
Iron Fist
Holy Fist
Iron Defense
Thunderpunch

(7)Wolfe
Sedcini City
Type: Dragon
Badge: Fantasy Badge
Enables: HM02 (Fly)
TM: Dragon Claw
Sinestril Lvl 45 Male
Ability: Empty Head
Dragon Claw
Fireball
Screech
Faint Attack

Vibrava Lvl 47 Male @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
Dragonbreath
Dig
Focus Sight
Aerial Ace

Malistril Lvl 48 Female @ Dragon Fang
Ability: Dragon Blood
Dragon Claw
Faint Attack
Taunt
Thrash

(8)Crys
Enechestra
Type:Rock
Badge: Opal Badge
Enables: HM04 (Strength)
TM: Megafriction
Cragoyle Lvl 50 Female
Ability: Vital Spirit
Megafriction
Wing Attack
Moonlight
Ambush

Tsunall Lvl 50 Female
Ability: Intimidate
Scary Face
Megafriction
Surf
Water Wall

Ingero Lvl 52 Male @ Magma Stone
Ability: Magma Armor
Megafriction
Fire Punch
Firebath
Amnesia

Leoracle Lvl 53 Male @ Hard Stone
Ability: Synchronize
Megafriction
Magic Coat
Roar
Future Sight

(9)Gerad
Dynamo Gardens
Type: Electric
Badge: Tesla Badge
TM: Overload
Nimbolt Lvl 57 Female @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
Thunder
Weather Ball
Thunder Wave
Explosion

Jolteon Lvl 57 Male
Ability: Volt Absorb
Double Team
Iron Tail
Overload
Shadow Ball

Stribra Lvl 57 Male @ Magnet
Ability: Run Away
Agility
Thunder
Extremespeed
Overload

Bakurge Lvl 59 Female @ Salac Berry
Ability: Volt Absorb
Subsitute
Belly Drum
Thunderpunch
Brick Break

(10)Christina
Skobeloff Town
Type: Ice
Badge: Rime Badge
TM: Icicle Whip
Frostorm Lvl 60 Female @ Leftovers
Ability: Cold Snap
Blizzard
Shadow Ball
Haze
Explosion

Polarice Lvl 62 Female @ Nevermeltice
Ability: Thick Fat
Blizzard
Slack Off
Surf
Icicle Whip

Kunaiga Lvl 64 Male @ Vital Herb
Ability: Intimidate
Avalanche
Earthquake
Icicle Whip
Taunt

(11)Osiro
Saharan City
Type: Ground
Badge: Sphinx Badge
Enables: HM08 (Dive)
TM: Fault Line
Destado Lvl 67 Female @ Leftovers
Ability: Sandstream
Weather Ball
Fault Line
Windwhistle
Explosion

Sandslash Lvl 68 Female @ Shrapnel
Ability: Sand Veil
Spike Wall
Fault Line
Aerial Ace
Megafriction

Cackinge Lvl 67 Male
Ability: Sand Veil
Substitute
Focus Punch
Needle Arm
Moonlight

Flygon Lvl 68 Male @ Resist Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Screech
Fault Line
Flamethrower
Outrage

Kaphinx Lvl 69 Male @ Sacred Veil
Ability: Synchronize
Reflect
Mirror Coat
Mystic Power
Psychic

(12)Layla
Aquapolis City
Type: Dark
Badge: Deep Badge
Enables: HM07 (Waterfall)
TM: Umbrage
Abyssus Lvl 70 Female
Ability: Eclipse
Ambush
Dark Aura
Umbrage
Aerial Ace

Serberine Lvl 71 Female @ Blackglasses
Ability: Intimidate
Ambush
Tri Attack
Fire Blast
Confuse Ray

Wolvine Lvl 72 Male @ Black Belt
Ability: Night Vision
Agility
Sky Uppercut
Leaf Blade
Crunch

Harskrow Lvl 73 Female @ Magic Herb
Ability: Night Vision
Umbrage
Dive Bomb
Psychic
Windwhistle

In the Graphics Forum, there is a topic for suggesting gym puzzles, which are slowly coming together.
We also still need sprites for most of our leaders right now. Froy and Therma are the only officialized ones.
---
In this topic, we can continue discussion about several things. Included in this are:
-issues concerning the proposed gym order
-suggestions for/issues with the HM list
-names for Kirant badges
-gym leader lineup changes
-anything else relevant

I can edit this post if changes are made, or if more info is needed.
Commence discussion.

Tyrannigon64
02-01-11, 03:28 PM
Thanks, Reli!

Tyrannigon64
02-01-11, 04:55 PM
Edit button expired.

How does one get to Olivine or Cianwood?

Also, suggestions for the badges:
Gallea: Venom Badge
Sedcini: Fantasy Badge
Aquapolis: Celestial Badge

Cyndadile
02-01-11, 07:12 PM
Also, suggestions for the badges:
Gallea: Venom Badge
Sedcini: Fantasy Badge
Aquapolis: Celestial Badge

I like Gallea, but I think something like Eclipse Badge would be better for Aquaplois. Celestail might work for Sedcini, but I'm not a fan of "Fantasy".

SilentSentinel
02-01-11, 07:37 PM
I'll come up with some proposed levels/gym lineups when I get home.

NyteFyre
02-01-11, 07:44 PM
Eclipse is used far to often, and it's bad enough we have one twilight reference here.
I think we could use Phantasm badge,maybe, for Sedcini

Also, maybe the Etheral Badge, or the Penumbra Badge for Aquapolis.

Cyndadile
02-01-11, 10:21 PM
Eclipse is used far to often, and it's bad enough we have one twilight reference here.

I don't think it matters what other fangames use, as long as the official games don't have it.

Also, it's not a reference to twiglight. It is the alignment of the moon between Earth and the sun, or the alignment of Earth between the Sun and the moon. If you're looking for references, you can find one in pretty much everything. As long as Aquapolis has nothing to do with the book (I've never read it, but I'd assume that it doesn't), it isn't a reference.

Another option: Umbra badge. More darkness related than Penumbra.

NyteFyre
02-01-11, 10:30 PM
Yeah, but Umbra is already in use as a move, and as an ability. Penumbral isn't currently in use.

I'm sorry, I can't help it. I've had enough of the Twilight fan-girls at my school. It's practically driven me insane that the mention of those just irks me.

Cyndadile
02-01-11, 10:34 PM
Didn't realize that Umbra was a move.

I don't see why twilight is such a big deal to people. It seems that everybody either hates it or loves it. It's a book. Don't be so obsessed, people. It can irritate me, too.

By the way, what other reference were you talking about?

Reliability
02-01-11, 10:52 PM
How does one get to Olivine or Cianwood?

That will definitely occur after the E4, so I'm not worrying about it right now. The most likely options are a ground route from Laysan to Cianwood or a sea route from Neo Bay to Olivine. These routes may or may not be travel-able. It may just be easier to have a boat/train pick you up, then drop you off.

NyteFyre
02-01-11, 11:03 PM
Yeah, those sound fine to me, Reli.

And Cynda, I used to be like you, but...Well, it all got to much after so long.

XTS
02-01-11, 11:29 PM
Gallea: Elixir Badge (some of the most effective medicine comes from the deadliest poisons; a master of Poison-types should be able to appreciate each, so her badge represents that)

Portwind: Shining Badge (subtle nod to Claire's Rising Badge in Johto; Tristan also ends up shining brighter than the other gym leaders as an E4 member; also the obvious shining light)

Sedcini: Rugged Badge (pretty much straightforward here; dragons are rugged and tough, as are the people living just outside the giant sedcini tunnel?)

Enechestra: Turquoise Badge (turquoise is a stone, and it's blue to represent the ocean that borders the city?)

Aquapolis: Deep Dark Badge (or just the Deep Badge; refers both to deep darkness as in the Dark element, and to the deep ocean surrounding the city)

...in case you haven't noticed, I like double meanings. In any case, use 'em if you want 'em, ignore 'em if you don't.

(my opinions on the other suggested badge names: Venom's too plain, would like Fantasy a lot if the Dragon-types in Topaz were more 'fantastic' - as in, to come out of fantasies, not just to be really fantastic - might like Celestial or maybe Imperial for Wolfe rather than Layla, because they happen to be names of dragon breeds from a book series I used to read, but I dunno if Celestial really fits for a gym in a city that can't even see the night sky. as for the other dark names, they do all seem a little simple and/or overdone. this is just me, but i really don't like using simple names for things if I can help it.)

Cyndadile
02-01-11, 11:54 PM
Gallea: Elixir Badge (some of the most effective medicine comes from the deadliest poisons; a master of Poison-types should be able to appreciate each, so her badge represents that)


My favorite. The gym leader should say something like your description.

Also, I prefer Deep Badge.

The rest are good.

Tyrannigon64
02-01-11, 11:59 PM
Gallea: Elixir Badge (some of the most effective medicine comes from the deadliest poisons; a master of Poison-types should be able to appreciate each, so her badge represents that)

That works quite well with the puzzle I had in mind, which is all about potions.

NyteFyre
02-02-11, 01:19 AM
I like the sound of that, The Elixer Badge...

Also, The Shining Badge is nice as well.

SilentSentinel
02-02-11, 02:41 AM
Took me a couple hours, but I drafted up lineups and levels for all the gym leaders. The first two are the same as they were before, and a few were just pumped up a bit.

Froy

Type: Fire
TM: Flare

Embear Lvl 9 Male
Abilty: Guts
- Tackle
- Growl
- Flare
- Focus Energy

Growlithe Lvl 10 Male
Ability: Intimidate
- Bite
- Roar
- Ember
- Flare

Scorchion Lvl 12 Male @ Oran Berry
Ability: Flame Body
- Bug Bite
- Flare
- Leer
- Fury Cutter


Therma
Type: Flying
TM: Windwhistle

Murkrow Lvl. 14 Female
Ability: Insomnia
- Torment
- Peck
- Windwhistle
- Pursuit

Equill Lvl. 14 Male
Ability: Empty Head
- Windwhistle
- Confusion
- Perish Song
- Ice Beam

Gashawk Lvl. 16 Female @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Keen Eye
- Featherdance
- Windwhistle
- Aerial Ace
- Double Team

Fernando
Type: Grass
TM: Cherry Bomb

Canileaf Lvl 19 Male
Ability: Night Vision
Howl
Bite
Double Team
Cherry Bomb

Phantern Lvl 20 Female @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Insomnia
Leech Seed
Toxic
Cherry Bomb
Flamethrower

Brontogon Lvl 22 Male @ Resist Scarf
Ability: Chlorophyll
Magnitude
Rock Tomb
Cherry Bomb
Grasswhistle

Jane
Type: Normal
TM: Statronome

Firrel Lvl 26 Female
Ability: Pickup
Flamethrower
Quick Attack
Statronome
Zigzag

Miltank Lvl 27 Female
Ability: Thick Fat
Milk Drink
Attract
Stomp
Statronome

Tauros Lvl 27 Male @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Overdrive
Horn Attack
Scary Face
Statronome
Pursuit

Zantilidae Lvl 28 Male @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Immunity
Swords Dance
Slash
Pursuit
Brick Break

This one might be on the tough side with Miltank...


Bella
Type: Poison
TM: Venom Strike

Kondria Lvl 30 Female
Ability: Poison Point
Sleep Powder
Venom Strike
Fake Tears
Giga Drain

Drakodo Lvl 32 Male @ Poison Barb
Ability: Dragon Blood
Venom Strike
Dragonbreath
Bite
Screech

Pythang Lvl 34 Female @ Corrosive Acid
Ability: Shed Skin
Venom Strike
Crunch
Glare
Ice Beam

Tristan
Type: Light
TM: Holy Fist

Seraph Lvl 37 Female @ Sacred Veil
Ability: Serene Grace
Purify
Lovely Kiss
Light Wave
Light Screen

Purior Lvl 40 Female @ Blessed Ankh
Ability: Last Effort
Iron Fist
Holy Fist
Iron Defense
Thunderpunch

I made his team kind of weaksauce right now since he becomes better later on, I can strengthen him if needed.

Wolfe
Type: Dragon
TM: Dragon Claw (There are no Topaz dragon TMs)

Sinestril Lvl 45 Male
Ability: Empty Head
Dragon Claw
Fireball
Screech
Faint Attack

Vibrava Lvl 47 Male @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
Dragonbreath
Dig
Focus Sight
Aerial Ace

Malistril Lvl 48 Female @ Dragon Fang
Ability: Dragon Blood
Dragon Claw
Faint Attack
Taunt
Thrash

Larger jump in levels here since there are two towns in between sedcini and portwind, and those towns are the Rocket/Orion headquarters so probably some storyline action going on there as well.

Crys
Type: Rock
TM: Megafriction

Cragoyle Lvl 50 Female
Ability: Vital Spirit
Megafriction
Wing Attack
Moonlight
Ambush

Tsunall Lvl 50 Female
Ability: Intimidate
Scary Face
Megafriction
Surf
Water Wall

Ingero Lvl 52 Male @ Magma Stone
Ability: Magma Armor
Megafriction
Fire Punch
Firebath
Amnesia

Leoracle Lvl 53 Male @ Hard Stone
Ability: Synchronize
Megafriction
Magic Coat
Roar
Future Sight

Gerad
Type: Electric
TM: Overload

Nimbolt Lvl 57 Female @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
Thunder
Weather Ball
Thunder Wave
Explosion

Jolteon Lvl 57 Male
Ability: Volt Absorb
Double Team
Iron Tail
Overload
Shadow Ball

Stribra Lvl 57 Male @ Magnet
Ability: Run Away
Agility
Thunder
Extremespeed
Overload

Bakurge Lvl 59 Female @ Salac Berry
Ability: Volt Absorb
Subsitute
Belly Drum
Thunderpunch
Brick Break


Christina
Type: Ice
TM: Icicle Whip

Frostorm Lvl 60 Female @ Leftovers
Ability: Cold Snap
Blizzard
Shadow Ball
Haze
Explosion

Polarice Lvl 62 Female @ Nevermeltice
Ability: Thick Fat
Blizzard
Slack Off
Surf
Icicle Whip

Kunaiga Lvl 64 Male @ Vital Herb
Ability: Intimidate
Avalanche
Earthquake
Icicle Whip
Taunt


Osiro
Type: Ground
TM: Fault Line

Destado Lvl 67 Female @ Leftovers
Ability: Sandstream
Weather Ball
Fault Line
Windwhistle
Explosion

Sandslash Lvl 68 Female @ Shrapnel
Ability: Sand Veil
Spike Wall
Fault Line
Aerial Ace
Megafriction

Cackinge Lvl 67 Male
Ability: Sand Veil
Substitute
Focus Punch
Needle Arm
Moonlight

Flygon Lvl 68 Male @ Resist Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Screech
Fault Line
Flamethrower
Outrage

Kaphinx Lvl 69 Male @ Sacred Veil
Ability: Synchronize
Reflect
Mirror Coat
Mystic Power
Psychic

Layla
Type: Dark
TM: Umbrage

Abyssus Lvl 70 Female
Ability: Eclipse
Ambush
Dark Aura
Umbrage
Aerial Ace

Serberine Lvl 71 Female @ Blackglasses
Ability: Intimidate
Ambush
Tri Attack
Fire Blast
Confuse Ray

Wolvine Lvl 72 Male @ Black Belt
Ability: Night Vision
Agility
Sky Uppercut
Leaf Blade
Crunch

Harskrow Lvl 73 Female @ Magic Herb
Ability: Night Vision
Umbrage
Dive Bomb
Psychic
Windwhistle

Wow, those are some crazy levels. That's what twelve gyms means though. At least I didn't give Layla a Raiger.

All of these are open to comments/criticism of course.

NyteFyre
02-02-11, 02:47 AM
lol, nice Throwback to Whitney!

I see you edited Christina's after we worked on hers while we still had only 6 gyms.

I like to think of it this way...At least the Elite four will actually be, well, Elite, what with having level 80, and possibly 90, pokemon at their disposal!

Tyrannigon64
02-02-11, 03:28 AM
O.O There isn't even a CHAMPION with levels as high as Layla's! The only champion that comes even close to her is the Black/White champion, Adeku, and even then, his Pokemon's levels are 75-77. How high are the levels of the Pokemon of this game's champion going to be!? Will they be in the 90's?!

Reliability
02-02-11, 03:59 AM
No other game has had 12 gyms, so the levels are going to be much higher than any canon game. But you'll be levelling at the right rate anyway, so it just means that game is longer, not that more grinding is required.

SilentSentinel
02-02-11, 04:00 AM
Likely as not they will be in the 90s, yes. Even if these levels are nerfed back a bit, they will be in high 80s at least.

We can't compare E4 levels of Canon games to ours because Canon games only have 8 gyms. Our plot has a lot of battles in it as well.

zeroality
02-02-11, 10:21 AM
I was about to say "why do the Pokemon have 5 moves?" but realized the first one is the ability.

Should format that a bit better. Otherwise good job Reli and rp - the gym info was spread out across too many threads.

NyteFyre
02-02-11, 11:44 AM
Should format that a bit better. Otherwise good job Reli and rp - the gym info was spread out across too many threads.

^ this, thanks a lot guys, really!

SilentSentinel
02-02-11, 02:48 PM
Okay, I'll add "Ability:" to them when I get home. Genders as well.

ImmunityBow
02-02-11, 09:02 PM
I don't see why this shouldn't be pinned. I think there's too much gap between Froy and Therma. Right after Cranewing there's nothing to level on, unless you grind some more in Chartree or the grass near Cranewing, where things are level 7-9 ish max.

PokePoindexter
02-02-11, 09:24 PM
I have many bones to pick about the lineups.

First off, Blue's highest level Pokemon in HGSS was his Pidgeot (at Lv. 60), and he was the last of 16 gym leaders (not counting the E4).

As far as lineup suggestions go:
Jane - I would suggest removing Tauros from the list; he and Zantilidae have identical speed and high Attack, so that kind of ruins what little diversity there is on the team.

Bella - I'd downsize the levels to around 33-36 first and foremost. Otherwise, that all seems okay to me.

Tristan - 45 and 48 are still way too high. Maybe 39 and 42, but definitely not higher than that. Anyway, since you'll be battling him again later, he doesn't need to be overly powerful at the beginning.

Wolfe - Rocket-Orion plot or not, everything should still be 8-10 levels lower, as it's very unlikely that there will be a gigantic thing that early that will allow the trainer to gain levels that high prior to battling Wolfe. I would also suggest someone else be used instead of Arowana, since I keep hearing about Vincent (I think) using one. Perhaps Cragoyle or Gryphonic could be used instead (even though they're not Dragons, but when has any Dragon trainer not called Drake used a team purely comprised of Dragon-type Pokemon).

Crys - Perhaps Tsunall could be added somewhere in the mix.

Christina - I'd add Lapras and/or Iglonia somewhere on that list.

Seriously, if it's possible to make a 16-badge game where the highest level Pokemon is only at Lv. 60 with large numbers of instances with villains, it's also possible to make a 12-badge game with the highest level Pokemon at that level. You could downgrade Layla's whole team 20 levels and her Harskrow would hit that mark. But having gym leaders with Pokemon upwards of Lv. 60 before the E4? No. Just no.

XTS
02-02-11, 09:44 PM
The reason the Johto games' gym leaders are so low in leveled is because in many places you hardly battle any trainers between each other (also, the wild pokemon and non-gym trainer levels tend to stay quite low right up until the 8th badge, then never go higher than 50 or so after the E4). Johto is ordered completely differently than C/K is. While I do agree that the levels should be dropped some, maybe 5-10 levels, I like the high levels. It makes sense when you have to travel so far and likely battle many, many trainers, and it provides a better challenge. Don't change the levels too much, please.

As for the other stuff, Arowana was meant to be the main pokemon of the Steel E4 member, so try to leave it off of Wolfe's lineup if possible. And don't forget to leave open some good Water pokemon for the Water E4, too. Tsunall I like for Crys, though; it's good for type coverage, and it's both a Rock pokemon and an ocean pokemon, so it represents both the gym and the gym city.

PokePoindexter
02-02-11, 10:29 PM
That still doesn't justify using Pokemon at such high levels. Right now, the storyline seems most similar to the story in Ruby/Sapphire (not Emerald), where there is one evil team and their antithesis, and the former attempts to do something revolutionary while the latter tries to stop them. But Wallace's highest-level Pokemon is only Lv. 43. I admit that's a bit dull level-wise, and the rest of his team wasn't that hard, but since Milotic was a potential terror back in those days, it was still capable of being a difficult match (unless you used Kyogre, you cheaters!). As long as there's some kind of difficulty amongst the various Pokemon being used, you don't need their levels to be very high.

Maybe we can instate a sort of "policy" that if you use legendary Pokemon against gym leaders, they don't have to give you the badge.

XTS
02-02-11, 11:24 PM
Or we can just, you know, not make any legendaries obtainable until after you beat all 12 gyms. >_>

SilentSentinel
02-02-11, 11:26 PM
That still doesn't justify using Pokemon at such high levels. Right now, the storyline seems most similar to the story in Ruby/Sapphire (not Emerald), where there is one evil team and their antithesis, and the former attempts to do something revolutionary while the latter tries to stop them. But Wallace's highest-level Pokemon is only Lv. 43. I admit that's a bit dull level-wise, and the rest of his team wasn't that hard, but since Milotic was a potential terror back in those days, it was still capable of being a difficult match (unless you used Kyogre, you cheaters!). As long as there's some kind of difficulty amongst the various Pokemon being used, you don't need their levels to be very high.

Maybe we can instate a sort of "policy" that if you use legendary Pokemon against gym leaders, they don't have to give you the badge.

Hoenn also only has 8 gyms. Johto's levels are so low because there are very few battles between routes, and the entire Kanto region is a cakewalk up until Red, who suddenly has levels near 80. I'd rather not have that jarring of a transition. I would also note that the highest level wilds, even on the route between Blackthorn and New Bark Town, are like 27.

I liked that Johto had 16 badges. I hated that it was such an easy region.

As for Arowana, I'll take it off of Wolfe and make Malistril the highest level. There aren't a lot of dragon type choices. And there are plenty of Water Types up for selection for the water E4, I don't think any of the gym leaders even have a water type. Adding Tsunall to Crys though.

Cyndadile
02-02-11, 11:52 PM
Maybe we can instate a sort of "policy" that if you use legendary Pokemon against gym leaders, they don't have to give you the badge.

Let people use what ppokemon they want.

As for the levels, they are not too unreasonable. Basically all of Kanto's gyms have similar levels in HGSS. We're going to have things along the way to raise your level.

SilentSentinel
02-03-11, 12:00 AM
Even if our game had the same amount of event-related battles as the Hoenn games (which in the current look of things we will have more), it's not unreasonable to have a gym with 80 as the final level. If you use a team of 5 pokemon and one HM slave that you don't train (that's usually how I play personally), and you've done all the quests up until Wallace, your pokemon should be around level 50. With four more gyms than Hoenn, it's expected that your pokemon are in the low 70s by the time you reach Layla. Plus, seeing as this is a fangame and not a canon game, we can implement all the sidequests we want (for instance, the quest for the Mt. Frost Shrine is sure to have some tough battles involved). If you are an avid player of hacks and fangames, you can see that they all include lots of optional quests for leveling.

If we start by nerfing Froy by a level or two and decreasing the gap between Therma and Froy, I'd say it would be possible to decrease Layla's Harskrow by about... 7 levels. Anything more than that will bring the level gaps too close and make the game way too easy. If I wanted an easy pokemon game, I'd play the canon ones more.

And of course, we can't say for sure how a player will progress until the finished product is actually playtested before release. When that time comes, an actual evaluation of the leveling and overall difficulty can be made.

NyteFyre
02-03-11, 12:09 AM
I have to agree with RP on this one. We DON'T know how it will work out until it's been tried and tested. Tis why I say it would be safer to nerf it a little, and make adjustments as necessary during the testing phase. We're not basing the levels on canon games, it's a fan game for crying out loud!

ImmunityBow
02-03-11, 12:47 AM
It's quite possible to be going into the Elite 4 with a team of level 35-38s. That's what my team was for Leaf Green. (Got through with Hypnosis Gengar).

If you adjust for the number of sidequests and other things, I doubt most people will have a team of Level 73s for Layla (especially since level exp tends to scale up faster than the exp trainers give you) but reducing 7 levels will probably make it more manageable.

Tyrannigon64
02-03-11, 01:06 AM
We should either have the gym leaders at lower levels, depending on both the wild Pokemon and the previous gym leader, or we should have high-ish level wild Pokemon. One part that was really annoying in HGSS was right before I had to fight Bugsy. From what I remember, all I had was a Chikorita (maybe it was a Bayleef at that point) and a Pidgeotto (I forget exactly what it was, I know it was a flying type). I needed to level grind the Pidgeotto, but I couldn't because the surrounding Pokemon were such low levels. Let's not have anything like that in this game, it's just annoying.

SilentSentinel
02-03-11, 01:07 AM
It's quite possible to be going into the Elite 4 with a team of level 35-38s. That's what my team was for Leaf Green. (Got through with Hypnosis Gengar).

If you adjust for the number of sidequests and other things, I doubt most people will have a team of Level 73s for Layla (especially since level exp tends to scale up faster than the exp trainers give you) but reducing 7 levels will probably make it more manageable.

Did you... not train at all?

Anyway, it is likely that you will have lower level pokemon than the gym leader by that point. But let's be honest, the player has a huge advantage by being able to use any pokemon they want while the gym leader is for the most part stuck with one type or another that you can exploit. And the Elite Four are meant to be the best people around, it's only logical that they have raised their pokemon to the max and have stuff that's in the 80s. As long as we have multiple engaging sidequests (which any great fangame has many of), there shouldn't be much more grinding than canon games already have.

SilentSentinel
02-03-11, 01:48 AM
Double Post.

Nerfed the levels so the highest level pokemon is 73. Also, added genders to the pokemon.

Cyndadile
02-03-11, 02:00 AM
As long as we have multiple engaging sidequests

This is a must. It's one of the most important things, both for leveling and added entertainment value.

Level 73 sounds reasonable, although I honestly have never passed level 70 except in Red (but I'm getting close in HGSS, 65-ish).

NyteFyre
02-03-11, 02:02 AM
I managed to get to Lv 100 with two of my pokemon in my old Ruby version(before the data got erased by a relative D:) after grinding the E4 for about a half month straight.

SilentSentinel
02-03-11, 02:05 AM
I don't think anyone will need to grind that much.

Honestly, with the sheer number of cities and routes we have, there are plenty of opportunities for battling. Whoever designed the map really made use of the space to increase the playable area.

Cyndadile
02-03-11, 11:42 AM
Does someone have a copy of the map with town/place names and route numbers? That would be helpful, seeing that I really don't know most of them.

Blade Flight
02-03-11, 01:13 PM
Is anyone else noticing that Fernando, the third GL, gets Surf as an unlockable? I believe in terms of all regulal (meaning eight Gyms with unlockables in a good normal order) fangames and canon ones, Morty (4th of HG/SS)has the earliest Gym you could get the right to use Surf in. Fernando is even earlier.

Reliability
02-03-11, 03:57 PM
There is a simple explanation for that.

The route between Gallea and Portwind means that surf has to be unlocked before Tristan. Since we want to give Bella and Jane the Rivalry Orb shards, Fernando is the best option. What I was envisioning was a copy of GSC Whitney, who unlocked strength, you didn't get the HM until Olivine.

Cyndadile
02-03-11, 07:53 PM
You don't seem to need the HM until Gallea, so we could have it available around there or push unlocking back to gym 5.

Reliability
02-03-11, 08:14 PM
You don't seem to need the HM until Gallea, so we could have it available around there or push unlocking back to gym 5.
That was what I was insinuating, yes.

Cyndadile
02-04-11, 12:05 AM
I was just saying that we could go either route and have the same result, depending on what people want to do.

ImmunityBow
02-04-11, 06:24 AM
The route between Gallea and Portwind was supposed to be a ferry route, but if people want the extra leveling time that's possible too.

zeroality
02-04-11, 07:38 AM
Does someone have a copy of the map with town/place names and route numbers? That would be helpful, seeing that I really don't know most of them.

http://www.pokemontopaz.net/repository/uploads/maps/fullmap.png

Not sure how up-to-date that is. If it's outdated then someone needs to make a new one.

As for the levels, the reason Blue was so low at the end of Kanto in GSC is because Kanto was severely neutered. Pretty much the only battles you had in Kanto were the gym leaders - there were probably less than a couple dozen trainers in-between?

I think the gym Pokemon levels are fairly reasonable, and we will be playtesting the game as we go along so we can always lower the levels if needed.

Cyndadile
02-04-11, 08:44 PM
Thanks Zero, I can work with that.

Tyrannigon64
02-06-11, 07:54 PM
So, is the HM for Surf obtained before or after you challenge the gym? I have an idea for a gym that would only work if Surf has already been obtained (it's basically using Cut, Flash, and Surf to make potions). I already made the gym, but afterwards realized "Wait, the player might not get Surf until after this gym, therefore making the gym impossible. Crap."

Reliability
02-06-11, 09:37 PM
My plan was that you won't get Surf until after you beat Bella, two gyms later. But since you don't have the badge, you wouldn't be able to use Surf outside of battle anyway.

But could you replace the Surf bits with something else, not to do with HMs?

Tyrannigon64
02-06-11, 09:48 PM
But isn't it Roothaven's badge that lets you use Surf outside of battle?

Reliability
02-06-11, 11:43 PM
Ah, my stupid. I assumed you talking about the Roothaven gym. Probably should have asked first.

The only logistical issue about getting the HM before is that it would allow you to go to Portwind before you beat Bella. I guess we could put some other block in place to make sure that you can't, but I feel like not getting the HM until after would still be better and reduce randomness like the RAGECANDYBAR guy in Mahogany.
It might be a workable place for some plot stuff, but I would rather not. So see if you can think of an alternative to surf. If not, I'm sure we can work something out.

Tyrannigon64
02-07-11, 12:04 AM
No, I can't think of any alternative to Surf. Also, it's not just you're stupid, it's mine too, I should have specified that I was talking about Gallea. Perhaps it could be a block that only Bella knows how to get rid of? Just something that came to my mind.

Cyndadile
02-07-11, 12:54 AM
It could have something to do with the rivalry orb...

Reliability
02-07-11, 01:43 AM
It could have something to do with the rivalry orb...
I'd kiss you right now, if that were possible/effective via the Internet.

But it's not, so I guess you'll have to make do without one.

Tyrannigon64
02-07-11, 02:05 AM
There's a rivalry between Kalypso gym and Gallea gym, right? What if Jane blocks the way to the water, and when you talk to her she says "I won't move until you tell Bella to come out here and battle me!" Then once you finish battling Bella and she gives you the badge, she'll say "Oh? Jane's waiting outside for me? Thank you for letting me know. I'll go out and see her." Once you get close to the water, you'll overhear a conversation between them, and they'll move out of the way (probably towards the Pokemon Center, because Bella's Pokemon have all fainted because you just defeated her, and they probably want to battle each other). Could something like that work?

Cyndadile
02-08-11, 12:33 AM
I'd kiss you right now, if that were possible/effective via the Internet.

But it's not, so I guess you'll have to make do without one.

Besides, that would make things complicated.

Anyways, I'm not sure why Jane wouldn't go in herself. If we could think of a reason for that, Tyrannigon's idea would be good too.

Reliability
02-08-11, 02:46 AM
...fine, be that way. ;P

How about this? I tried to refine Tyrannigon's idea a little.
After defeating Jane, you'll have learned about an old conflict between the normal and poison gyms. After defeating Jane, she'll decide that she needs to settle the score once and for all to end the animosity between the two. She beats you to Gallea but is kept out of the gym by the gym trainers, who have been ordered to keep her out. Jane has to wait outside (inconveniently blocking the path) while you go in to convince Bella to come out. Bella leaves after your match, and when you exit, someone will let you know that Jane and Bella have left for Laysan to have their battle, as it was the village built on the border between their two territories and was the site of the last epic battle. ALSO, the two of them being there could allow them to be reoccurring characters in a later plot device/side quest in Laysan. They are so evenly matched that every battle they have ends in a draw, so they must remain in Laysan for several days to let their Pokemon recover between matches, thus their position can reamin the same until the time comes for Laysan to be useful.

Tyrannigon64
02-08-11, 02:55 AM
I think that's a good idea. I would also like to know why Kalypso and Gallea gyms have this conflict.

ImmunityBow
02-08-11, 03:15 AM
I think that's an absolutely excellent way of finally incorporating Zantilidae/Pythang/Rivalry Orb into Topaz's world. This is a really great idea.

The reasoning is allowed to be a little fuzzy over why they have such a rivalry: Mongeese and vipers' animosity is difficult to explain as well.

Cyndadile
02-08-11, 08:02 PM
Yes.

I can see something happining with the Rivalry orb and Kuranpu, seeing how they are basically opposites. Like you draw out Kuranpu by using the orb in a special way?

SilentSentinel
02-08-11, 11:41 PM
We would need to make it a key item or something then, otherwise players might accidentally sell it or throw it away.

Tyrannigon64
02-08-11, 11:48 PM
Can't you give the Rivalry Orb to Zangoose/Seviper to evolve them into Zantillidae/Pythang when they level up? If so, does it disappear after use?

SilentSentinel
02-09-11, 12:43 AM
Hence making it a key item. Then it wouldn't disappear after use.

Tyrannigon64
02-09-11, 12:54 AM
Can Pokemon hold key items? I don't think they can, but I might be mistaken.

Edit: Just checked Bulbapedia. Key items can not be held by Pokemon.

NyteFyre
02-09-11, 12:56 AM
you probably just hit the use button, or maybe go somewhere special while having the orb, and the pokemon you want to evolve in the first slot, or something.

SilentSentinel
02-09-11, 01:46 AM
They can't be held, but they can be used, right? There's a way to edit it in ROM hacking at least.

ImmunityBow
02-09-11, 01:51 AM
We could just make it cost 0P so no one would sell it. Or warn in game not to sell it.

Or you could make a key item, and after the end of the sidequest you lose the key item and gain the evolution item.

zeroality
02-09-11, 04:36 AM
Or just do what most other RPGs do: have the stores refuse to buy it.

Blade Flight
02-09-11, 03:12 PM
It's not that hard, guys...

*Normal item
*Cannot sell it or drop it
*Program it so it doesn't disappear on use

Or, if that doesn't work, make it like the Griseous Orb or the Gracedia Flower.

Also, while on the topic of items, can we make the inventory like Gen IV and beyond and give the player infinite space?

Cyndadile
02-09-11, 10:23 PM
5-Price-The cost of the item when you buy it. Note that when the item is sold, it is sold for half this price (by default). If an item has a price of 0, it cannot be sold (Key Items and HMs should have a price of 0).

Anyone read the wiki?

Merlin
02-10-11, 03:55 AM
Cyndadile--great way to solve the problems, so yeah pricing it at zero wouldn't be bad, though doing it the way PikangX explained will also work...


The route between Gallea and Portwind was supposed to be a ferry route, but if people want the extra leveling time that's possible too.

IB--this route can still be a ferry route, but if the players could also surf that would be good too. Think of Mr. Briny and his cottage & boat from RSE, he would take you from one city to the next, but later on he was gone so you'd have to surf. Course he came back later as the ship's captain, but i figured that this idea could work.
Unfortunately this idea's usless if this was already going to be implemented later anyway.

Reliability
02-10-11, 10:11 PM
Even if some of the plot shows up in Portwind (pre-gym), I wouldn't like having such little journeying time in between Gallea and Portwind. That's the main reason that I don't really want a ferry. However, if we did use the ferry the gym levels of Tristan and Bella could be similar, thereby reducing the overall levelling of the gym leaders, which has been commented on as being really high. But I don't think that's enough for me to want a ferry there.

Nyte, I think that was the general plan.

Tyrannigon64
02-10-11, 10:41 PM
Whatever lets me use Surf in Gallea gym. I'll try to post Gallea gym tomorrow. If no one likes the idea, then the whole Jane and Bella plot thing doesn't need to happen (but it might still be good anyways :))

MeekRhino
02-11-11, 12:50 AM
I think it's great to have higher level leaders. I was always disappointed in the canon games because they never had a storyline for the entire level progression. It just capped out and then you were stuck grinding for no reason except for personal achievement.

Merlin
02-11-11, 02:05 AM
yeah, personally i wouldnt mind going against someone who's got like level 100 pokemon one day in a game (i'd die if i ever did) but having the cap stop at like 50 or 60 like they did in FRLG and GSC (E4) wasnt really the greatest...

Unfortunately this would mean that we'd have to have tons of battles between leaders to make sure we're at a good level to defeat tehm.

NyteFyre
02-11-11, 02:21 AM
I agree, but think of it this way. At least with this, we can make the game last longer, be replayable, and have the player actually feel a sense of accomplishment when they finally make it past the Champion!

Also, I think it would be better to have a sort of Champion thing where instead of just grinding the E4 over and over, we could actually leave your character as Champion, and have to face a number of Champion challenges a day, with pokemon that are actually near your level, instead of just breezing through the same level E4 over and over, getting less and less exp each time. Not sure if we would be able to fees-ably program that in though...

Merlin
02-11-11, 02:45 AM
Well in RSE, and PDP (and i think HGSS, not sure though) had the Battle frontier and Battle tower, FRLG came with the Trainer tower, and these were great for leveling up some pokes after the E4, only problem is trying to implement this in Topaz has proven to be problematic as it is near impossible to program into the game as well as the fact that i'm certain they wont add it (or at least not for a long time to come)...
This was pretty much the best way you could level up pokes without trying to level grind pokes in the wild...

Thought just occurred to me: Emerald: it came with the ability to re-challenge gym leaders, so why not do that again? (assuming you can get the right code for it) This would be great for people who wish to level grind, only now the leaders will do it and you wont have to sit there for ever trying to level up pokes out in the wild against level 55 pokes (or whatever the max is for the wild)...
As there are 12 gyms you could go through all 12 a few times leveling up pokes as fast/slow as you like. This, of course, would only be done post E4, since i'm pretty certain that the BF won't be added.

Reliability
03-07-11, 02:28 PM
Kalypso: Staccato, Syncopation
Gallea: Venom, Elixir
Portwind: Shining, Luminescent,
Sedcini: Fantasy, Phantasm, Rugged
Enechestra: Turquoise, Headland
Aquapolis: Celestial, Eclipse, Ethernal, Penumbra, Deep Dark, Deep

List of all the badge suggestions thus far, with my own added where I felt we needed more options:
Staccato and Syncopation are both music terms that have a connection to the city name.
Luminescent is simply to add another option.
A Headland is a piece of rock that has resisted erosion by waves, which seems appropriate for a coastal rock gym. But I also very much like Turquoise.

I'm sorry if I missed anything, and if you have any more suggestions, please let me know. Otherwise, if you could post your preferences, and I can get these up.
As always, any results made here are contestable, and will only become official if nothing else comes up that has enough support to replace it.

Tyrannigon64
03-07-11, 02:38 PM
I like Staccato! I think it fits, but that might just be me. And what does "Syncopation" mean?

Reliability
03-07-11, 03:23 PM
In music, syncopation includes a variety of rhythms that deviate from regularly spaced strong and weak beats in a meter (pulse). These include a stress on a normally unstressed beat or a rest where one would normally be stressed.

http://www.8notes.com/school/lessons/piano/beginner_blues/syncopation.gif
If you want a visual, the trebel is syncopated, bass is not. The quarter note comes on the second half of the beat, not on the beat like it does below.

Tyrannigon64
03-07-11, 04:38 PM
I think I get it.

ImmunityBow
03-07-11, 11:56 PM
Syncopation is playing off-beat. So if you get out a metronome and put it to something like 3/3 time, if you play all your notes between the beats, or the strong beats are the weak notes should be, that's syncopation.

It's kind of a large topic, but that's the gist.

EDIT: Ninja'd. Page changes always do that to me.

Tyrannigon64
03-08-11, 12:36 AM
Ninja'd? Anyways, that explains it a bit better for me.

Cyndadile
03-08-11, 12:55 AM
Ninja'd?

Reli beat him to the punch, and he did not realize it due to the fact that Reli's post was on a new page.

Tyrannigon64
03-08-11, 01:00 AM
Ohhh. I get it now.

Reliability
03-08-11, 01:50 AM
Kalypso: Staccato, Syncopation
Gallea: Venom, Elixir
Portwind: Shining, Luminescent,
Sedcini: Fantasy, Phantasm, Rugged
Enechestra: Turquoise, Headland
Aquapolis: Celestial, Eclipse, Ethernal, Penumbra, Deep Dark, Deep

List of all the badge suggestions thus far, with my own added where I felt we needed more options:
Staccato and Syncopation are both music terms that have a connection to the city name.
Luminescent is simply to add another option.
A Headland is a piece of rock that has resisted erosion by waves, which seems appropriate for a coastal rock gym. But I also very much like Turquoise.

I'm sorry if I missed anything, and if you have any more suggestions, please let me know. Otherwise, if you could post your preferences, and I can get these up.
As always, any results made here are contestable, and will only become official if nothing else comes up that has enough support to replace it.
Quoted for emphasis. Please tell me what you want, or you'll have to make do with my choices. :p Which are, btw:

Kalypso: Staccato
Gallea: Elixir
Portwind: Shining
Sedcini: Fantasy
Enechestra: Headland
Aquapolis: Deep

Tyrannigon64
03-08-11, 02:06 AM
I'm good with those.

ImmunityBow
03-08-11, 02:15 AM
Headland seems a little too obscure. We'll want badge names that really resonate with people and link strongly and quickly to their gyms. That's not going to happen with Headland, especially since most people won't take the time to check up what it is.

Tyrannigon64
03-08-11, 02:40 AM
I don't even know what it means and I think it's better than Turquoise. Some suggestions of mine are Mountain, Crystal, Ore, Fossil, and Rubble. They aren't great, but it's just brainstorming, really. It might make someone else think of something better.

Irot_Rebod
03-08-11, 04:42 AM
Kalypso: Staccato (I also present Bongo, Conga, and Maraca - common instruments in the Calypso style of music)
Gallea: Venom
Portwind: Shining
Sedcini: Fantasy
Enechestra: Headland (Agreed with IB on his points, though)
Aquapolis: Deep

I prefer the simpler names - it starts to sound forced if we use words that are obscure, methinks. :x

Cyndadile
03-08-11, 01:50 PM
Kalypso: Staccato
Gallea: Elixir
Portwind: Shining
Sedcini: Fantasy
Enechestra: Opal? Topaz would have been my first choice, but for obvious reasons...
Aquapolis: Celestial

Black Temple Gaurdian
03-09-11, 09:41 PM
Aquapolis: Rapture

Dark allures of pure pleasure?

Reliability
03-10-11, 02:20 AM
I think we're going for an aversion to darkness rather than an attractiveness.


Dark allures of pure pleasure?
When I read this, I didn't think rapture, but I did think about other things. Things I wouldn't feel comfortable explaining in an open forum.

Black Temple Gaurdian
03-10-11, 07:41 AM
Yes, much like when I saw the librarian trainer? Anyway, was just thinking of a random excuse for a bioshock refrence.

XTS
03-12-11, 05:21 AM
I'll throw out a couple more names, just in case people aren't satisfied with the current options for any of them:

Kalypso: Percussion Badge
Sedcini: Crag Badge
Enechestra: Coastline Badge, Cape Badge, Cove Badge (cape is better than cove, imo, since it's more of a land formation and a cove is more of a water formation, but eh)

And that's totally not an attempt to get people to vote for my badge names. Nope, not in the slightest. Anyway, my votes, discounting the above suggestions, go to:

Kalypso: Staccato
Gallea: Elixir
Portwind: Shining
Sedcini: Fantasy
Enechestra: Headland
Aquapolis: Deep (Dark)

tigerft1
03-12-11, 07:24 PM
Thanks! I was lost for a little bit about the whole gym leader thing. Here's a suggestion for froy:

Pyroon: Level 11
Inflare: Level 11
Grizlarre: Level 13

The moves you can choose!

tigerft1
03-12-11, 07:29 PM
What about the:
Scorch badge
Wing badge
Weed badge
Xilir badge
Shiny badge
Mystical badge
(All in order of gyms)

Tyrannigon64
03-12-11, 08:29 PM
Could you please tell us which gyms each badge is for? First of all, you're six badges short. Second, what does Xilir mean? Third, what do the names Shiny and Mystical have to do with Poison and Light respectively?

Blade Flight
03-12-11, 08:51 PM
Thanks! I was lost for a little bit about the whole gym leader thing. Here's a suggestion for froy:

Pyroon: Level 11
Inflare: Level 11
Grizlarre: Level 13

The moves you can choose!

Froy was done a LONG time ago, actually. Only Christina and Osiro are left and they're almost done, I think.

tigerft1
03-12-11, 09:41 PM
Sorry. Spelling mistake. It is supposed to be elixir.
They are all in order of gym appearance.

Tyrannigon64
03-12-11, 09:52 PM
You already said that, I just wanted to make sure you didn't make a mistake ordering them. So you're suggestions are:

Cranewing (Fire): Scorch
Softwind (Flying): Wing
Roothaven (Grass): Weed
Kalypso (Normal): Elixir
Gallea (Poison): Shiny
Portwind (Light): Mystical

And like I said, you missed six. Either way, those don't look right to me... Did you miss Kalypso?

Reliability
03-12-11, 10:18 PM
Okay, now that I'm done being lazy, the first topic is edited with all the lineups and TMs (thanks to rp for those <3). I also included blanks for the things that are still missing.

I'll leave another few days for this kind of voting. I think, to make things more official, I'll make a separate poll for actual voting. I'll use this to shorten the list of possible names though, and if something is overwhelmingly popular here, I'll leave it out of the other one. For example, Staccato and Shining are 4/4. So if that dosen't change, I won't bother putting those to poll.

@tigerft1: I haven't counted your votes yet because you haven't clarified if those are suggestions or if they are your favourites as well. When you specify what belongs to what and your answer to that question, I'll count it.

IF YOU HAVE NOT VOTED, PLEASE DO SO. IT HELPS ME KNOW THAT I'M NOT IGNORING PEOPLE'S OPINIONS.
---
EDIT: The next pressing thing to decide is what items Gerad and Christina will unlock. Does anyone have any ideas?

NyteFyre
03-13-11, 12:28 AM
Kalypso: Syncopation
Gallea: Venom
Portwind:Luminescent,
Sedcini: Fantasy
Enechestra: Headland
Aquapolis: Ethernal

zeroality
03-13-11, 11:44 AM
I'll vote when the poll is up.

Cyndadile
03-14-11, 09:26 PM
Not on the topic of badges, but I had an idea about gym leaders.

Tristan's going to the big leagues, right? So his gym will get old old and cobwebby, and trainers won't get to go to the E4, because they can't get their 12th badge. Unless, of course, some nice fella goes on and takes his place in Portwind.

So, Portwind gym goes out of buisness for a while, and you can't go in. Then, you beat the E4 and the champion. He's all sad, but then remembers about a job offer. He goes off, redesigns the gym, and challenges you again. You can keep battling him, and he gets stronger each time. (Maybe you could get a 13th badge, while you're at it). Or he could always set up a new gym back home at Neo Bay, too.

Reliability
03-14-11, 09:30 PM
It's definitely a possibility to re-create the Portwind gym after the Champion. I don't think that it would do much good for him to get stronger, but having that one battle could be interesting.

Are you referring to Simon or Bradley? I think Simon might be a better fit, as Bradley is likely going to go back to be the Professor's aide.

Cyndadile
03-14-11, 11:18 PM
I was talking, apparently about Alisa. But Simon would work. He's on your team, right? Not the opposite team?

Reliability
03-15-11, 01:38 AM
I don't want to do Alisa again, simply because you fight her as champion and the gym would be the next institutional battle. Also, Alisa seems more like the type who would go off into the wilderness and train to defeat you instead of settling for a gym title.

Cyndadile
03-15-11, 12:03 PM
Simon is good, then.

SilentSentinel
03-15-11, 01:45 PM
I don't reallu know if I like him there either. It seems to me like he would be more inclined to wander far away, never to be seen again given the plot circumstances.

Reliability
03-15-11, 01:49 PM
I suppose Bradley was supposed to have some light-type on his lineup, so maybe that would work better?

Cyndadile
03-15-11, 06:54 PM
Or we could do a double gym leader (double battle) with some other familiar faces...

Reliability
03-15-11, 07:08 PM
Now we're leaving the realm of usability. If we do this, it should be simple.

Cyndadile
03-15-11, 07:28 PM
Ok, just throwing out some character options.

Bradley could say that he's meeting pokmon for his pokedex by being a gym leader.

ImmunityBow
03-15-11, 11:30 PM
Unless you have already scripted otherwise, I also think Bradley is the best fit. His personality aligns with the Light-type, which is the exact hole Tristan leaves by joining the Elite 4. I don't really see him working all his life for Willow either.

Reliability
04-25-11, 01:30 AM
Kirant gym badges are done, so the next thing to determine in what Gerad and Christina should unlock in place of HMs. But I was thinking: is it necessary at all? The Rivalry Orb shards are tied into Jane and Bella nicely and that will definitely be included, but it dosen't have to be in a gym affiliated way. Is it enough just to get the badge without it unlocking anything extra?

B/W does this with its badges IIRC, since there are only a few HMs.

Tyrannigon64
04-25-11, 02:01 AM
Yeah, not every gym has to unlock stuff. First gen did this because there were only 5 HMs. What HMs are we having in this game? There are 9 total in generations 1-3, so at least 3 gyms have to not unlock an HM. To name them:
Cut
Fly
Surf
Strength
Flash
Whirlpool
Waterfall
Dive
Rock Smash

Which ones are in Topaz?

Reliability
04-25-11, 02:16 PM
Not Whirlpool, the other 8. They are already listed in the first post as to which badges unlock each.

Tyrannigon64
04-25-11, 02:47 PM
Okay, so I don't see why Christina and Gerad should have to unlock something. So, what are the badges going to look like? Do we still need to decide, or have they been talked about before?

Reliability
04-25-11, 04:55 PM
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1/BlackShadowmon3/PokemonTopaz-Badges-.png
These are what has been done. The third and fifth are no longer needed, as they were for Hanzo and Mandy who are no longer with us. We still need to do all the Kirant badges, and if there are other versions/re-conceptualizations of what has already been done, we can look at those as well. I would also be open to changing the style of the badges altogether, as was done in B/W. I think this is an area where we can be innovative if we want.

Tyrannigon64
04-25-11, 05:12 PM
Which badges are which?

Reliability
04-25-11, 05:31 PM
They go in order. If you discount the third and fifth:
Glass
Gale
Vine
Tesla
Rime
Sphinx

Cyndadile
04-25-11, 07:05 PM
In regards to unlocking stuff: If we have something to unlock, that would be great, but it isn't necessary.


they were for Hanzo and Mandy who are no longer with us.

Am I the only one who thinks that this phrasing is funny? And that "phrasing" is a funny word?

Reliability
04-25-11, 08:04 PM
In regards to unlocking stuff: If we have something to unlock, that would be great, but it isn't necessary.
That's my thinking at this point. I'll go ahead and delete the blanks, but we can insert something later if we feel like it.