Rocket Punch: Useless As It Is?

[Blade Flight]

I was looking through old topics and found something on Orion's Sword/Rocket Punch.

It's based on happiness values for both the user and the target, right? I remembered something I saw on Serebii; it claimed that the move Frustration was NEVER worthwhile since it was extremely hard to make Pokemon dislike you and keep them that way.

With that in mind, I suggest we simply make Rocket Punch a Dark-type version of Orion's Sword. I mean, think about it: TR's Meowth likes to be around Jesse and James. Frustration and RP would be useless on it. Plus, I'd assume that if the player goes TR, their Pokemon wouldn't really dislike them, and instead believe that their Trainer is doing it for a GOOD reason (finding Simon). Thus, they'd continue to like you, rendering RP worthless.

Opinions?

[Tyrannigon64]

Yeah, I have to agree.

[SilentSentinel]

Rocket Punch
Dark
BP: 140
Acc: 90
PP: 5

Attack will fail if user has a higher happiness level than the opponent.
(Damage calculations are opposite of Orion’s Sword formula)

Why don't we just remove the part in parentheses? Then it becomes a very worthwhile move.

[Tyrannigon64]

How? It's rare that a wild/trainer's Pokemon will be happier than your own. I'm pretty sure they are average happiness, and chances are your own will be higher than average.

[NyteFyre]

I never understood how you could make your pokemon not like you, and yea, it does seem kind of useless.

[Cyndadile]

With that in mind, I suggest we simply make Rocket Punch a Dark-type version of Orion's Sword.

[ImmunityBow]

You can feed it herbs instead of Potions, or let it die a lot.

Why not make this a public decision?

[Reliability]

Why not make this a public decision?
Agreed. Done.

I also would prefer RP to be the dark version of OS. It goes along better with the storyline too.
As it paints a less evil picture of the Rockets as a whole, not just of the protaganist.

[ImmunityBow]

Referring to the spoiler, I completely agree. However! It's not compatible with the Dark-type move philosophy.

[PokePoindexter]

We have a Rocket Ball which means that whatever it catches will have its happiness level lowered permanently to 0. My initial idea when I came up with it was so it could basically guarantee you have someone who can make good use of Rocket Punch (like a Chiarame or Sinestril).

[Tyrannigon64]

Oh, the Rocket Ball's effects are permanent? I didn't know that! That makes Rocket Punch so much more useful.

[ImmunityBow]

I forgot about that too. Yes, that was the intention.

[Konrad]

Eggs hatch into normal poke balls, so bred Pokemon can never use Rocket Punch to it's full potential. Therefore, I support the change.

[zeroality]

Referring to the spoiler, I completely agree. However! It's not compatible with the Dark-type move philosophy.

Elaborate?

[PokePoindexter]

Eggs hatch into normal poke balls, so bred Pokemon can never use Rocket Punch to it's full potential. Therefore, I support the change.
When eggs hatch, their happiness level is 120, which is higher than any you would catch in the wild, so those would be the better ones to teach Orion's Sword to anyway. As I recall, you can get both TMs at different points.

[ImmunityBow]

Pre-Diamond/Pearl, all Dark-type moves are all Dark in nature, rather than in element. They don't have anything to do with shadows or darkness (that's left to the Ghost type) but rather deal with dark things, such as Beat Up, Pursuit, Thief, Torment, etc. Topaz so far has largely followed with this concept (Umbrage, Ambush... though Dark Aura isn't a very good representation of the concept) and generally the rest of Pokemon has followed, if you ignore some very glaring examples such as Dark Pulse.

[zeroality]

Ah I see what you mean now.

My thought is that we should leave it as is, as it's designed to work well with the Rocket Ball.

I'll admit that pretty much means you have to join Team Rocket and that it'll only be useable on one Pokemon but isn't that sort of the point?

[Cranky Guy]

Couldn't there be a Team Rocket convienience store (bad idea) or something like that that sells rocket balls and herbs?

[PokePoindexter]

Nah...two things:

1) One Master Ball is good enough for most games, so one Rocket/Orion Ball is fine too.
2) How exactly do specialty Poke Balls and herbs make an ideal selling combination? The RB alleviates the need for herbs.

[Konrad]

Only one rocket/orion ball? How about they have 100% catch rate and we ditch the master ball?

[Tyrannigon64]

Ditch the Master Ball? I think some people who download the game may think the idea unholy.

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

1) One Master Ball is good enough for most games, so one Rocket/Orion Ball is fine too.

I disagree. There was only one master Ball because it had a 100% capture rate. These however, IIRC, don't. They're just the extremities of what luxury balls could be (max happy, max unhappy).

[Tyrannigon64]

I disagree. There was only one master Ball because it had a 100% capture rate. These however, IIRC, don't.

Orion/Rocket Balls have a *2 capture rate.

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

Still not 1005 though is it? Hell Ultra Balls have better than that and they're not a once off item.

[Tyrannigon64]

I'm just saying so people know.

[EthanK]

On the "Dark" type name issue, why not Rocket Claw, or something similar?

[Tyrannigon64]

The name isn't the issue. Rocket Punch is basically a move that is more powerful when the user has less happiness, and when the opponent has more happiness. We're saying that this would be a very useless move because it is very hard to prevent a Pokemon from becoming happy, so it would have less power. Thoughts?

[EthanK]

I agree it would be a bit of a useless move, as it is nearly impossible, to train a Pokemon while making it hate you.

[Reliability]

Does the rocket ball have to be a once off item, then? The way I see it, we either need to make it a 100% capture rate or make it more common. Otherwise, it can't effectively and Rocket Punch becomes useless.

[PokePoindexter]

Okay, maybe a second/third of whichever Specialty Poke Ball of the team you join later on. I'm only offering this because I just now re-won a Master Contest in Emerald and got a second Luxury Ball.

2x is the same capture rate as Ultra Balls, so that's not bad if you ask me (Great Balls are 1.5x).

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

Meh the two work in combination [Orion Ball|Orion Sword], [Rocket Ball|Rocket Punch] -> Best controlled outcome.
Why not have them sold at the team's base?

[Blade Flight]

Why not have them sold at the team's base?

I could have sworn this was already what we were doing...at least, for a while, I did.

[Cyndadile]

Why not have them sold at the team's base?

[PokePoindexter]

I think that would be rather unnecessary, especially in the case of Team Rocket, whose signature attack is completely ineffective against Light-types, and those who get STAB for it would take a huge load of damage from Orion's Sword. In fact, for all it's worth, since you can get both TMs (I think) no matter which team you join, maybe we should just enable you to get one of each signature ball.

Figure this out: In the RSE series, the Luxury Ball was the only Poke Ball you had to help you get improved happiness. It has a standard Poke Ball capture rate (1x). You could get more than one per game, but it wasn't the easiest task in the world. The Pokemon's happiness level would be doubly affected by those that boost it. Now, since we're advocating for Poke Balls that have twice as high a catch rate and immediately stretch the happiness level permanently to its highest or lowest level, doesn't it make sense to limit the number of them in the game?

[Reliability]

I'm just worried about the possibility of the capture failing with the set number, since it isn't 100%, or even all that high. If luck is against the player, the item is essentially useless.

[Tyrannigon64]

I'd be up for doubling the existing catch rate to *4.

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

Still wouldn't solve the problem.
"Go Rocket Ball!"
...
The Pokemon broke free.
"Shit!"

[Cyndadile]

I'd still say keep them a buyable item, but maybe really expensive, like $10 000 or something.

[Tyrannigon64]

^ Sounds good to me.

[ImmunityBow]

Or perhaps a repeatable sidequest?

[EthanK]

Or a regular catch rate (pokeball) but not 10,000 dollars, something like ~ 2,400.

[Cranky Guy]

I have one question for the people who supported the idea of making the rocket ball a buyable item. If we have so many rocket balls, and we only have one Rocket Punch TM, it wouldn,t really be of much use would it????

[zeroality]

Still wouldn't solve the problem.
"Go Rocket Ball!"
...
The Pokemon broke free.
"Shit!"
I lol'd.

But yeah, either selling it expensively or having it be re-obtainable via some kind of sidequest sound like good solutions to me.

[PokePoindexter]

Still wouldn't solve the problem.
"Go Rocket Ball!"
...
The Pokemon broke free.
"Shit!"


I'm just worried about the possibility of the capture failing with the set number, since it isn't 100%, or even all that high. If luck is against the player, the item is essentially useless.
Here's the whole thing with that. If you're particularly hell-bent on getting a certain Pokemon to be captured in the Rocket Ball, there are two ways you can ensure you get it:

1) Bring a Pokemon with False Swipe (that's still a TM, isn't it?), and something else like Thunder Wave or Hypnosis (or Spore). With 1 HP and a status, most non-Ubers are captured easily with an Ultra Ball or two.

2) Save the game before entering the patch of grass. If the RB fails the first time, restart and try again.

It might take some time, but I can't see it taking as long as it would take to catch an Uber with a load of Ultra Balls.

[Cyndadile]

If we do the sidequest thing, make sure it is not something easy. Maybe getting to the center of a confusing cave or something?

Also, what if you wanted an uber in the Rocket Ball?

[Reliability]

I'm down for having it bought at a high price in your base. I think that might be the best option, and the player is by no means forced to use Rocket Punch. If they want to, they can put in the effort to get them in the Rocket Ball.

Is there something we can do to boost Rocket Punch a little? The way this seems to be working, it looks SO much harder to get an effective Rocket Punch Pokemon versus an Orion Sword Pokemon. Like, a 5 BP boost, extra PP or something? Just so that there is a little more reward for getting and using it effectively.

[PokePoindexter]

I agree that Rocket Punch could use more power. Maybe 150 or 160 (its original was 140). Also 100 accuracy (as opposed to 90).

[zeroality]

I agree that Rocket Punch could use more power. Maybe 150 or 160 (its original was 140). Also 100 accuracy (as opposed to 90).
lol, I think you may be "improving" it a wee bit too much there.