Here be Itemz

[metagrosslord]

Yep, item sprites now. Deal with it. XD More to come.

This first one's just a recolor, but if you notice, all dust-related items have this sprite.
Diamond Dust: http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=539/http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=548

I took the herb sprite, made it green, and drew some sparkles. Works well enough. XD
Magic Herb: http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=540

This one's 100% custom. It came out decently enough. :P
Solar Cell: http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=541/http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=549

Another custom, that came out much nicer than I thought.
Toxic Slime: http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=542

Here's the remaining two pokeballs.
Orion Ball: http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=544/http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=546
Rocket Ball: http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=543/http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=547

Wow, this came out... weird. Kinda fitting though, as it is shrapnel.
Shrapnel: http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=545

So that's it for this I think. I don't even know where to begin for the other two, so unless you really need them, someone else can do them. I WILL fix the ones I did if they aren't good enough or something. So someone please review something besides the slime? PLEASE!?!?!?

[Sev]

There had been an issue with the slime that I don't know has been resolved. It was how the pokemon hold the slime if I recall.

[metagrosslord]

Lolwut? Who cares how they hold the slime? They can hold anything else that nintendo drums up. XD

[Tyrannigon64]

I think the argument was whether or not it should be in a vial.

[metagrosslord]

I don't see why it should be in a vial. Besides, is pokemon logical to begin with? The d*** animals can breathe fire and zap stuff... AND they're stored in containment units way smaller than they are... XD

[XTS]

Favorite sprites are definitely the Magic Herb and Shrapnel, well done on those. The rest are mostly fine, although...the R on the Rocket Ball could stand out a bit more - maybe make it a little bigger and/or brighter? - and the Orion Ball in general could do with some much lighter color tones, since the Defenders have always worn light-tone clothing in all the sprites I've seen. Try yellow and a lighter blue, kind of like Blitzfaust's colors, and see how it comes out.

[metagrosslord]

Alright, thanks! I'll try that for the Orion ball, but I think the rocket ball came out fine. It was enough of a pain to draw the letters in fancy writing and stuff. I'll wait for more opinions before deciding on that.

[Tyrannigon64]

They're all quite good. Comments for each specifically:

Diamond Dust: Kind of looks like sugar or flour if you ask me. Darker shades should be bluer. I'm pretty sure IB said something about not reusing sprites for Diamond Dust.
Magic Herb: Doesn't look very magic, but it's probably as magic as it can get. I like it, but I think IB said something about not reusing sprites for this either.
Solar Cell: Seems kind of generic, but it's hard to be less generic with something like that.
Toxic Slime: It doesn't look very toxic. I'm sure a recolour to a brighter shade and a brighter green glow could fix this.
Orion Ball: I don't associate the Orion Defenders with deep blue. Try white instead, and see how it looks.
Rocket Ball: The R should be the same R we've known since we've know Team Rocket. You know, the one that looks like it's in Arial Black. Yours is too fancy.
Shrapnel: I'm not too familiar with what shrapnel is, but that looks like something that fits the description of the item (i.e. looks like it scatters spikes on contact).

[metagrosslord]

Not reusing sprites? Really? Wow, you people have issues with Nintendo or something. :X

[Tyrannigon64]

Not me, just IB. I'm not sure why for the Diamond Dust, but for the herbs it's probably because the canon games didn't reuse sprites for herbs (at least I don't think they did).

[Irot_Rebod]

Everything looks pretty good.

I agree with Ty about the blue with the Orion Ball - white is more evocative of what they represent, methinks.
I really like the R on the Rocket Ball, but if you could remake the canon R on there, it'd be fun to compare.

I also agree with IB about reusing sprites. We should avoid it because it seems lazy. Even when I arrange old tracks from canon games, I add things to them to make them different so as to not seem like I'm a lazy composer. :P

[ImmunityBow]

There's a bit of a chain here, and it's pretty funny.

Neon quoted BT.
Piro quoted Neon.
I quoted Neon and Piro.
And now everyone's quoting me as having said that we're trying not to use simple recolours.

Anyway, it's not just me, it's been a long-standing general consensus. The main reason I've been generally averse to non-scratch sprites is because I see the sprites and think they're so amazing, but then later am disappointed to find out they're just recolours :X I don't think I've outright said that recolours and edits will plain not be accepted, but probably have given that impression given my behaviour towards them.

Anyway, Diamond Dust will do as a placeholder if it really is the sprite for all dust-related items. Of course, a scratch is immediately preferable, but if that's the tradition I won't argue against it. I think though that the blue is too dark.

Magic Herb looks decidedly plain, I don't think adding sparkles is the right thing to do here. That's more for an Edward Herb or something.

Solar Cell is another brave attempt at one of those difficult sprites no one seems to get. The main problem with it being that it looks like it's floating in midair rather than resting on something (like most items), because of the perspective you used. It also looks like a window. The main problem is that there's just no detail. It needs more tangibility: some kind of depth to it. A box for storing the power, for instance, or some soldered wires. Things like that.

Toxic Slime looks entirely fine.

The R on the Rocket Ball is really hard to make out, I think using another shade of red, one that is less saturated, will be helpful for making it more eye-pleasing. The Orion Ball's colour scheme could be changed, I think. Blue and orange rarely work out, trying something more like yellow/gold and blue-gray is more to what I imagine.

And Shrapnel looks great! It may look a little too regular and symmetrical, but you captured the effect brilliantly and it will definitely do.

[zeroality]

I don't see why it should be in a vial. Besides, is pokemon logical to begin with? The d*** animals can breathe fire and zap stuff... AND they're stored in containment units way smaller than they are... XD
Great post.++

Most things have already been pointed out. Good work on the Shrapnel sprite, I'll be posting it to the site.

I noticed that most of your images seem like they come from MS Paint? If that's the case, you'll probably want to download Paint.NET (http://download.cnet.com/Paint-NET/3000-2192_4-10338146.html), which is a free program with more features and better options. It may take a little getting used to but there are tons of tutorials on the Paint.NET Forums (http://forums.getpaint.net/) that should help you out.

An artist is only as good as his tools, as many will tell you.

[Reliability]

I use MS Paint, zero. Don't be hatin' on the Paint.

I actually disagree about the Orion and Rocket balls.
I think that the Orion ball looks really good as is. If we're adding white, I would prefer to have a blue/white combo instead of blue/yellow. I just think that it would be a nicer contrast. But if a few combinations are done and shown to us, we can know for sure which is preferred.
I also like the new R and I think that the current red is fine.

Shrapnel is great, but I'd like to see some black outlines on it.

[Cyndadile]

Just thought I'd throw this out there; I've always connected the Orions with the Soul Dew, mainly because it is the icon next to the page names for the site. It's colors might be good colors to try out.

As for the others, I like them, except for shiny herb and solar cell, for the reasons IB stated.

[Sev]

While I liked the idea of the Orion Ball I'll have to agree with Reliability. http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/1879/myorionball.png (http://img683.imageshack.us/i/myorionball.png/)
I did use your colors ; )
So, I changed the bottom to white, redid the O (including shading), and changed the out line to black because it contrasted better.

[metagrosslord]

Thanks, Infinity but you also detransparentized it. I'll be taking the suggestions here.


Great post.++

Most things have already been pointed out. Good work on the Shrapnel sprite, I'll be posting it to the site.

I noticed that most of your images seem like they come from MS Paint? If that's the case, you'll probably want to download Paint.NET (http://download.cnet.com/Paint-NET/3000-2192_4-10338146.html), which is a free program with more features and better options. It may take a little getting used to but there are tons of tutorials on the Paint.NET Forums (http://forums.getpaint.net/) that should help you out.

An artist is only as good as his tools, as many will tell you.

As much as I hate to say it, I've been using scratch painter for years, so I'm not changing. But, I'll be going through the suggestions and (attempting to) fix them.


There's a bit of a chain here, and it's pretty funny.

Neon quoted BT.
Piro quoted Neon.
I quoted Neon and Piro.
And now everyone's quoting me as having said that we're trying not to use simple recolours.

Anyway, it's not just me, it's been a long-standing general consensus. The main reason I've been generally averse to non-scratch sprites is because I see the sprites and think they're so amazing, but then later am disappointed to find out they're just recolours :X I don't think I've outright said that recolours and edits will plain not be accepted, but probably have given that impression given my behaviour towards them.

Anyway, Diamond Dust will do as a placeholder if it really is the sprite for all dust-related items. Of course, a scratch is immediately preferable, but if that's the tradition I won't argue against it. I think though that the blue is too dark.

Yep, dust never changes. And I remember seeing something about "Trainers and items being mostly splices and recolors" but whatevs. I'll go with the judgement of the people. And what is less saturated supposed to mean, anyway? I'm confused now, but I'll take the final push to please everyone now. Solar Cell I have NO IDEA how to elaborate on, so I think I'm stuck there. Oh yeah, and where on earth are you getting blue for the diamond dust? I used purple... XD

I can quote you people now:

We have a variety of custom-made sprites, contributed by our community. Our Pokémon sprites have all been scratch sprited, as well as a chunk of our item sprites. Our Pokéballs and other small sprites are mostly splices or recolors. If you would like to contribute your work, feel free to do so at the Forums. So ha. And... HA.

[Sev]

Less saturated means more in the grey spectrum. In terms, it means all colors start with grey. Then the hue is the X axis. The definition of saturation is the percent of something within something judged by the maximum capacity of that something, that something meaning of that hue. So if you move your selector along the Y axis it determines how full is the grey of that hue, being judged by the maximum amount of that which it could hold. It's a bit hard to understand IMO

[metagrosslord]

Lolwut? I hate computers. So much. Too d*** confusing. But anyways, I started the redos with the pokeballs, since they got the most complaints of all the sprites.

I changed the orange to a white color, so... yeah. Shpoof! XTS is the only one that said to lighten the blue, so majority rules there... If anyone else thinks I should lighten the blue, I'll do it.
Orion Ball: http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=546

This one had to be done, especially considering EVERYONE was hatin' on the R. Poor R.
Rocket Ball: http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=547

[Sev]

Ok with the orion ball turn the outline and band black. Then SHADE the O!
BTW if you turned the blue a darker version of the orange it could be the Cheerio Ball XD

[metagrosslord]

Dude, what is with you and the black outline obsession? Pokeballs NEVER have a black outline, and why the heck would I shade the O? Look at the Master Ball. Do you see a shaded M? NO. You don't. So stop saying that.

Anyways, I took IB's suggestion (Even if he got his colors wrong) and lightened the purple tone on diamond dust.
Diamond Dust: http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=548

Solar Cell I still don't quite know how to fix... But, the shading needed a touch-up, so I did that.
Solar Cell:http://www.pokemontopaz.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=549

So once again we reach a point where I'm stuck... So here's things I'd like to clarify: 1.How exactly am I supposed to update Solar Panel. 2. This is for ImmunityBow specifically, if you aren't going to go with what the site says with splices and recolors, that how should I go about making the Magic Herb?

And I also just noticed this:

Not me, just IB. I'm not sure why for the Diamond Dust, but for the herbs it's probably because the canon games didn't reuse sprites for herbs (at least I don't think they did).

Let's see... White Herb, Power Herb, and Mental Herb:

White Herb: http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/8/85/Bag_White_Herb_Sprite.png

Mental Herb: http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/0/05/Bag_Mental_Herb_Sprite.png

Power Herb: http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/f/f3/Bag_Power_Herb_Sprite.png

Looks reused. XD Once again, you guys break trend.

[Reliability]

So once again we reach a point where I'm stuck... So here's things I'd like to clarify: 1.How exactly am I supposed to update Solar Panel. 2. This is for ImmunityBow specifically, if you aren't going to go with what the site says with splices and recolors, that how should I go about making the Magic Herb?


1. You'll have to re-do it. As with a lot of graphics, sometimes a first concept dosen't work, so the whole thing needs to be re conceptualized. It isn't always easy to hear, but that's the sad truth sometimes.

2. The site does not imply that we expect for all of our item sprites to be recolours, but that they are so far. We would prefer to have more custom sprites, not recolours. I don't think that the section you quoted implies what you seemed to be taking from it. So again, the magic herb will also have to be re conceptualized

[Tyrannigon64]

Let's see... White Herb, Power Herb, and Mental Herb:

White Herb: http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/8/85/Bag_White_Herb_Sprite.png

Mental Herb: http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/0/05/Bag_Mental_Herb_Sprite.png

Power Herb: http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/f/f3/Bag_Power_Herb_Sprite.png

Looks reused. XD Once again, you guys break trend.

Revival Herb: http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/2/27/Bag_Revival_Herb_Sprite.png

And these technically count as herbs.

Heal Powder: http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/7/77/Bag_Heal_Powder_Sprite.png
EnergyPowder: http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/f/f1/Bag_EnergyPowder_Sprite.png
Energy Root: http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/1/14/Bag_Energy_Root_Sprite.png

[zeroality]

The Pokeballs and Diamond Dust sprites look so much better!

I'll be putting those on the site as placeholders unless there are major objections.

[Cyndadile]

I like the first Rocket ball better. The "R" is more...Scripty and Rocket-ish.

[zeroality]

I like the first Rocket ball better. The "R" is more...Scripty and Rocket-ish.

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&q=team+rocket+logo

[Cyndadile]

Yes, I know that the new one is the actual rocket logo, but I think that the other one captures the essence of team rocket. Also, on the new one, the R should be curved more to fit with the curve of the ball.

[metagrosslord]

Revival Herb: http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/2/27/Bag_Revival_Herb_Sprite.png

And these technically count as herbs.

Heal Powder: http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/7/77/Bag_Heal_Powder_Sprite.png
EnergyPowder: http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/f/f1/Bag_EnergyPowder_Sprite.png
Energy Root: http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/1/14/Bag_Energy_Root_Sprite.png

You're missing the point. The herbs you guys added to the game are in-battle effect herbs, whereas those are special medicine items. All In-Battle Effect Herbs share that sprite.

On another hand, WOOHOO!!! I got some sprites on the site! XD

And I have no idea how I'm gonna re-conceptualize magic herb. Any ideas peoplez?

[ImmunityBow]

I know that a significant portion of the sprites are scratched because I did them. No need to shout or yell "HA", this project has so many moving parts that zero can't be expected to keep track of them all. I wasn't aware before that dusts and herbs are cycles (most of our edited/recoloured items are parts of cycles, Pokeballs (which wouldn't look right scratched), X Sp. Defense, Incenses, things that would look off if they were any different). Remember though, one of the aims of Topaz isn't simply to imitate Nintendo but also to improve. So if we can scratch different herbs instead of recolouring, there's no problem with that. And Herbs logically look different, if you think about it.

As for saturation, that means that the colours have too much value. It doesn't mean dark, but rather deep. The new Orion Ball has this problem too.

[metagrosslord]

I'm working on a new magic herb anyway. And I'll lighten the blue on the Orion Ball if that's what you're getting at, though I stand by my beleif that the Rocket Ball looks fine. I'll de-saturate that if you insist, though. And I do agree that herbs logically look different, I just was wondering why you would stray from the trencd. Now I know that you just didn't know about it, so no big deal. 4-leaf clover is the next concept idea I had for magic herb, sound good?

[zeroality]

this project has so many moving parts that zero can't be expected to keep track of them all
Feel free to update anything on the site. Descriptions, whatever.

I haven't uploaded the new material yet, but I will.

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

For the rocket ball I found this
http://pokebeach.com/scans/ex-team-rocket-returns/89-rocket%27s-poke-ball.jpg
that could be used as inspiration.

[Cyndadile]

That looks almost exactly like what Metagrosslord made. Seems like a fitting concept.

[metagrosslord]

For the rocket ball I found this
http://pokebeach.com/scans/ex-team-rocket-returns/89-rocket%27s-poke-ball.jpg
that could be used as inspiration.

Wow... That's almost exactly the same as mine. XD

[Sev]

Wow... That's almost exactly the same as mine. XD
No it isn't. Yours should have a black band curved R in a white circle. You really shouldn't be rude like that, he was just trying to help.

[Tyrannigon64]

Firstly, he didn't say that it's almost exactly what he should have made, he said it's almost exactly what he has made. Second, what is with your obsession with black bands? Most Pokeballs have a greyish-black bands (I'm pretty sure lighter than what you're talking about)
http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/9/93/Bag_Pok%C3%A9_Ball_Sprite.png
And there are some that have completely different coloured bands.
http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/5/55/Bag_Premier_Ball_Sprite.png
http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/8/87/Bag_Luxury_Ball_Sprite.png
http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/0/06/Bag_Dusk_Ball_Sprite.png
Finally, I don't think he was being rude. He was just stating that it looked almost exactly like what he made. Probably somewhat surprised that Nintendo came up with almost the same thing as he did.

[Cyndadile]

I do think that ours would look better with a white band; easier to distinguish it from the top.

[Reliability]

The band colour really dosen't matter as long as it looks fine. Which it seems to.

Finally, I don't think he was being rude. He was just stating that it looked almost exactly like what he made. Probably somewhat surprised that Nintendo came up with almost the same thing as he did.
Correct. After reading IB's comment in another topic, Infinity probably was looking for something rude from metagrosslord, even if it really wasn't.

[Sev]

No I didn't. Just grumpy today...

[metagrosslord]

Firstly, he didn't say that it's almost exactly what he should have made, he said it's almost exactly what he has made. Second, what is with your obsession with black bands? Most Pokeballs have a greyish-black bands (I'm pretty sure lighter than what you're talking about)
http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/9/93/Bag_Pok%C3%A9_Ball_Sprite.png
And there are some that have completely different coloured bands.
http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/5/55/Bag_Premier_Ball_Sprite.png
http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/8/87/Bag_Luxury_Ball_Sprite.png
http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/0/06/Bag_Dusk_Ball_Sprite.png
Finally, I don't think he was being rude. He was just stating that it looked almost exactly like what he made. Probably somewhat surprised that Nintendo came up with almost the same thing as he did.
Nailed it. What are the odds Nintendo would have the same logic? And while it might look nice with a different colored band, even the Ultra Ball has a grey band. And that has black on it too.


Correct. After reading IB's comment in another topic, Infinity probably was looking for something rude from metagrosslord, even if it really wasn't.
Why would he do that? Whatever the case may be, it was surprise that made me say that. Not rudeness. :P

Still no comments, so I'll go with what's been established so far.

[zeroality]

Now that I look at that card and the Rocket Ball, I realize that the R does need to be more naturally curved onto the ball. Look at how it is in the picture...

[Cyndadile]

Now that I look at that card and the Rocket Ball, I realize that the R does need to be more naturally curved onto the ball. Look at how it is in the picture...


Also, on the new one, the R should be curved more to fit with the curve of the ball.

No one listens anymore... :(

[zeroality]

"does need to be" - I was emphasizing your point!

[Cyndadile]

Ah. My mistake.