Pokedex Problem Log

[Tyrannigon64]

Pre-reader: The pre-reader's job is to look through our Pokedex and bring up any flaws or issues that need to be addressed. Just a log topic in the Moves/Items section would be good.

And that's what this is. If you spot anything wrong in the Pokedex, mention it here. Things like movesets that don't make sense, mixed up stats, etc. should be posted here.

With that, I'll bring up the first problem: Eaglair's speed is lower than Gashawk's and identical to Fincherp's.

[ImmunityBow]

Eaglair has an ability that doubles its speed, effectively bringing its base speed up to the 180 (I think) range. Neon's reasoning was that any more than 80 would just be overkill. Certain evolutions lose base stats upon evolving, such as Kakuna to Beedrill and Shellgon to Salamence. In this case, it shouldn't even really be noticeable, since Eaglair will have MUCH higher speed than Gashawk in almost all cases.

[PokePoindexter]

I think either Venap and Traplent OR Dionare should have their attack and special attack stats reversed (preferrably the former, since we already have two special-based starters).

Also - someone please remind me - with the original 50 TMs, should we base the list on who learns them in the third generation or fourth?

[ImmunityBow]

I guess the progression doesn't seem overly logical, but does anyone think it's worth changing? It shouldn't really affect gameplay radically, and there still is an increase for both stats from Traplent to Dionare.

Base the list on 3rd gen.

[Blade Flight]

I agree with changing one of the Grass-starter-line's stats around.

Also, does anyone think that Zenith was right in his argument towards Echoise's moveset? I kind of agree with him on the points he made...

EDIT: Also, I don't see Cacnea/Cacturne's Dex Entries in their topic, though I can tell you that "deserts" is misspelled on one of them as "desserts".

[ImmunityBow]

If I remember correctly there are canon Pokemon who have pre-evos with different Attack/Special ratios from the final stage. What make it so important to keep the ratio constant for the Venap line?

I'd really rather you don't dredge the Echoise argument up again. If you do, nothing will ever be finalized. Always some people will agree on the points and some people will disagree, but we've talked the changes to death already and the potential improvement is so intangible.

A lot of the canon Pokemon don't have their entries updated in their topic, since for some reason I stopped being so diligent about updating them there. I fixed the spelling issue though.

[Noog]

Eaglair gets a massive 518 Speed with Aerodynamic, actually, outspeeding even Deoxys-S, who can only reach 504. I think Aerodynamic itself should be changed instead of Eaglair's base Speed, though.

By the way, could the typings for the Pokémon be added into the Pokédex as well?

[ImmunityBow]

That'd be a fair amount of work, and I think it might be better to prioritize on progressing the game rather than access of information, at least for now.

Eaglair has been balanced around Aerodynamic, it's meant to outspeed Chlorophyll/Swift Swim Pokemon in weather and Calm Wind their weather away.

[Tyrannigon64]

So, wait a minute, as soon as Eaglair comes into battle, Aerodynamic doubles its speed? So that means it always will have the same really large amount of speed, as if that's its normal speed stat.. Am I the only that finds this ability to be pointless? Or am I missing something?

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

IT means you can baton pass speed boosts onto it and they get doubled.

[ImmunityBow]

It's as pointless as Pure Power and Huge Power are, I guess. It's also a design resource: By giving Eaglair Aerodynamic, you can push it to 180-ish base speed without making his base stat total something way out of its league, like 555 (Gyarados/Arcanine level), but at the cost of an ability slot. Overall, Eaglair has a very unique place in the Topaz framework and I'm happy with the role and capabilities afforded to it by Aerodynamic. It also shows a really cool progression from the clunky egg-ridden Fincherp to the agility of Eaglair.

[PokePoindexter]

If you look at the rest of Eaglair's stats, they don't seem to be overly impressive. Basically, Eaglair's main selling point is to end weather. He's not necessarily supposed to last forever or sweep - if you want the former, you have Cumuloft.

[NyteFyre]

Hey, maybe it's just to help move things away from Eaglair, but I noticed that Sandshrew/Sandslash, and probably all other canon pokemon, are missing their sprites, and finalized dex entries in the Dex Area.

Also, the rest of the C/K only pokemon, from Whispaw on (in number order)should be put into the official format we have, but that's just me. As well, the finished Canon edits that RP has done should probably be put into the official dex format.

[ImmunityBow]

1. Yes, but I'm going to have to defer this since I don't think it's too high a priority. The finalized dex entries, however, will be going in soon.
2. No, you're right. SilentSentinel and Mediocrity Incarnate were the big pushers for this so when they didn't have time for it any more it just halted. This is a possible project someone can pick up: writing up entries in the right format so I can edit them in.
3. Yes, I'll update them as they are locked.

[NyteFyre]

I can probably get onto that, IB. I'll just get right on that.

[shyshy761]

#166 to #176? i thoughtit could only be up to three evolutions... (like evolving huskii into tundrolf, evolving tundrolf into wolfrost, etc.) if they did do that, 166, 167, 168 to 169, 170, 171...

[ImmunityBow]

Sorry, I don't quite understand your question. Could you clarify for me?

[Cranky Guy]

I think he meant that he saw a pokemon that was no. 166 evolve into no.176 meaning that the pokemon had ten evolutions before reaching it's final stage.

[Reliability]

#166 to #176? i thoughtit could only be up to three evolutions... (like evolving huskii into tundrolf, evolving tundrolf into wolfrost, etc.) if they did do that, 166, 167, 168 to 169, 170, 171...

The number jump is due to old Pokemon that are included in the Pokedex. Check this page: it will give you all of the Pokemon, not just the Topaz ones.

[Cranky Guy]

I just noticed that Jirachi is the last pokemon in the pokedex. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but isn't the main pokemon of the game usually not the last? Shouldn't the after you finish the game legendaries be the ones that go last like rayquaza and giratina?

[ImmunityBow]

Do you think it matters enough to change all the data we have, which is a more than a couple hours of work?

[Cranky Guy]

Oooooohhhhhhh yeeeaaaaaahhh. Forgot about the hours. srry About bringing this up.

[ImmunityBow]

No problem. I don't want to sound belligerent, it's just my job to remind you guys of the implications of changes. But I don't mind you suggesting them.

[shyshy761]

Sorry, I don't quite understand your question. Could you clarify for me?

Lol, I feel like a total fool now... Pokemon from the older games are put there... Btw cranky guy, umm... I'm not a he... Reliabilty, that's what I was talking about. But... Wouldn't those be put into the national dex, not the main one?(if there's a national dex in the game, that is.)

[NyteFyre]

Well, if you look at any pokemon game from Jhoto on, each Regional Dex has had several pokemon from previous generations that are also native to that region. One of the most commonly found pokemon in any region is, of course, Magikarp! They're found in every canon region aside from Unova. The canon pokemon you see in the dex listing are native to the Topaz region, and are therefore found in the Topaz Regional Pokedex.

[Tyrannigon64]

Yeah, I think I'm supposed to be looking through the stats, moves, etc. of the Pokemon we have now to see if there's anything wrong. And I haven't been doing that. Maybe I should do that.

Well, one thing I noticed is that Venap learns both Mud Slap and Atonish at level 10. Pokemon generally don't learn multiple moves at the same level, right? (Excluding Wynaut when it evolves into Wobbuffet, because Wynaut/Wobbuffet is special)

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

Yes you should do that. You really should do that.

[ImmunityBow]

We can remove Astonish, if needed. Mud Slap was added later so that Venap didn't suck against the first 5 gyms of the game. There are a bunch of Pokemon that learn multiple moves at the same level. Butterfree, for instance.