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Thread: Revamp: Koffing -> Weezing

  1. #41
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    Could we substitute Afterburn in place of Haze?
    I don't really know how to judge appropriate places on movesets. In game, I usually just kepp the most powerful moves and get rid of stat changers or effect inducers.
    Except for sleep powder. My butterfree needs sleep powder.

  2. #42
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    Stat Changers and Effect Inducers are important. They bring variety and spice to a moveset. I mean how interesting is a Pokemon with Ember, Flamethrower, Fire Blast AND Fireball. Haze especially should stay for flavour reasons. It fits Koffing more than practically anything on its moveset. There's nothing wrong with just juggling the levels around a bit and just adding to the moveset. That's what Gamefreak does from game to game anyhow.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImmunityBow View Post
    I mean how interesting is a Pokemon with Ember, Flamethrower, Fire Blast AND Fireball.
    My Quilava is ember, flame wheel, flamethrower, and lava plume...
    Actually, I think I threw rollout in there somewhere. Probably instead of ember.

    Would before or after smokescreen work for afterburn?

  4. #44
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    After Smokescreen might work, since it's between two support moves.

  5. #45
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    How's this?
    01/01 Poison Gas
    01/01 Tackle
    09/09 Smog
    15/15 Selfdestruct
    19/19 Sludge
    23/23 Smokescreeen
    28/28 Afterburn
    34/34 Haze
    41/44 Explosion
    45/51 Destiny Bond
    49/58 Memento

    Before:
    01/01 Poison Gas
    01/01 Tackle
    09/09 Smog
    17/17 Selfdestruct
    21/21 Sludge
    25/25 Smokescreeen
    33/33 Haze
    41/44 Explosion
    45/51 Destiny Bond
    49/58 Memento

    Koffing evolves at level 34.

  6. #46
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    01|01
    01|01
    09|09
    13|13
    19|19
    25|25
    29|29
    33|34
    39|41
    45|48
    49|53

    Allows us to add a few more moves in and maintains the general pattern.

  7. #47
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    Compare to original:
    01|01 - 01/01 Poison Gas
    01|01 - 01/01 Tackle
    09|09 - 09/09 Smog
    13|13 - 17/17 Selfdestruct
    19|19 - 21/21 Sludge
    25|25 - 25/25 Smokescreeen
    29|29 - XX/XX Afterburn
    33|34 - 33/33 Haze
    39|41 - 41/44 Explosion
    45|48 - 45/51 Destiny Bond
    49|53 - 49/58 Memento

    It seems like you decreased Selfdestruct and sludge for no reason, since smokescreen remains unchanged. Also, Haze needs to be 33/33 or 34/34, since Koffing hasn't evolved yet.
    With Haze almost unchanged, I don't see why you decreased levels for Explosion, Destiny Bond, and Memento. It's not just adding an extra move, it's also compressing the level range to 1-53 instead of 1-58.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Temple Gaurdian View Post
    01|01
    01|01
    09|09
    13|13
    19|19i
    25|25
    29|29
    33|33
    39|40
    45|47
    49|52
    53|56


    Allows us to add a few more moves in and maintains the general pattern.
    Fixed Haze. Anyway, who says we're sticking to FR/LG's moveset? Moveset compression allows new moves in the same range. As for explosion earlier: Due to the higher humidity of the region Koffing/Weezing are more volatile, and thus more prone to explosions and spontaneous ignition. Hence why fire moves can be learnt naturally rather than having to be taught.

  9. #49
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    I meant that having so many moves accessible earlier might not be the best option. Condensing the moveset gives players access to better moves at an earlier time, making the game less challenging.

    Also, can you really think of better moves for Koffing than a bunch of gas and poison moves? I think the moveset was pretty well put together.

  10. #50
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    More poison, and a few fire, moves?

  11. #51
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    No, I agree. Koffing/Weezing's moveset was practically perfect as far as fitting moves went. There aren't any I want to replace. But it's not an overstuffed moveset so we're still free to just add a couple more.

  12. #52
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    01|01
    01|01
    09|09
    13|13
    19|19
    25|25
    29|29
    33|33
    39|40
    45|47
    49|52
    53|56

    Only adds in two moves though. Given Afterburn was wanted that leaves one move. Surely it's not that hard to find a single move that fits Koffing/Weezing? Sludge Bomb, for example, would give it access to a high-powered move late game that isn't self-destructive.

    01|01 Poison Gas
    01|01 Tackle
    09|09 Smog
    13|13 Smokescreen
    19|19 Selfdestruct
    25|25 Sludge
    29|29 Afterburn
    33|33 Haze
    39|40 Momento
    45|47 Explosion
    49|52 Destiny Bond
    53|56 Sludge Bomb
    Maybe? I'm unsure about the last 3's order, but I feel it's more balanced (less all offensive then a run of support and more a mixture) and still fitting (asides from afterburn, but even that could be seen as a prequel to Explosion I guess).
    Last edited by Black Temple Gaurdian; 07-20-12 at 09:28 PM.

  13. #53
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    I think smokescreen should be moved up, to break up the three damaging moves in a row.

  14. #54
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    ...Wait. Is Cherry Bomb going on as a TM or not? I don't think there was a concrete determination on the subject.

    I personally would support it being added.

  15. #55
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    I think "yes" was the majority.

  16. #56
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    Let's put it this way; the game's out and you don't know Koffing/Weezing's moveset. Would you think to try Cherry Bomb on a Koffing? IDK, it just doesn't mesh to me.

  17. #57
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    I wouldn't. But I wouldn't try any fire or electric moves, either.

    Let's vote. Should Cherry Bomb be added as a TM? (Vote even if you've stated your opinion before.)

    I vote yes.

  18. #58
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    I vote we move this vote to Topaz general. I also vote no.

  19. #59
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    I vote yes.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Temple Gaurdian View Post
    I vote we move this vote to Topaz general.
    Why? All the other revamps are here, it's move-related, and General is filled with enough other random stuff.

  21. #61
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    Because the majority of the traffic is in general?

  22. #62
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    I'll vote yes. This is in moves/items where it should be, so I think this is the correct place to have it. Especially since it concerns Koffing's revamp so closely.

  23. #63
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    True, but this vote is specific to not only a move type, but a specific pokemon line's moveset. Makes more sense to hold it in the area with most relevance to the vote subject. It it was a more large-scale voting process, such as with the shinies, I could see it moved to General; but this particular vote is very specific and very small scaled.

    I vote that I don't care. I'm indifferent. I don't care one way or the other.
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  24. #64
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    Current tally:
    Yes = 3
    No = 1
    Indifferent = 1
    Let's give it 48 hours for more votes before anything is finalized.

    Meanwhile, what do other people think about BTG's move listing?
    01|01 Poison Gas
    01|01 Tackle
    09|09 Smog
    13|13 Smokescreen
    19|19 Selfdestruct
    25|25 Sludge
    29|29 Afterburn
    33|33 Haze
    39|40 Momento
    45|47 Explosion
    49|52 Destiny Bond
    53|56 Sludge Bomb

    I still think Smokescreen should be moved to a higher level, since something needs to break up selfdestruct-sludge-afterburn.

  25. #65
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    I feel that giving Self-Destruct that early could break his moveset, same with the other moves. Why don't we see if we can fit a Topaz specific suport move between Self-Destruct, and bumping Self-Destruct down to 17? Otherwise, I fell it's fine.
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  26. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by NyteFyre View Post
    I feel that giving Self-Destruct that early could break his moveset [...] and bumping Self-Destruct down to 17?
    Much confusion. Unless you're refering to Explosion. In which case I'm all for swapping it with sludge bomb. It's really quite hard to judge suicide moves.

    Also, moving Smokescreen higher brings up Tackle-Smog-Selfdestruct.

  27. #67
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    I meant, we shouldn't move Selfdestruct all the way down to 13, but 17 could possibly work
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  28. #68
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    Any suggestions on what to add? I don't think many Topaz moves fit with Koffing's usual theme.

  29. #69
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    I say none. Koffing/Weezing are even more offensive heavy so three- in-a-row is a non issue. Also, adding a move means ether more early moves in middle-game or a tonne of moves at once. Also also, considering selfdestruct is a self-ko, it doesn't really have the same impact as other three-in-a-rows. Seriously, I see nothing wrong with the current moveset suggested.

  30. #70
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    I personally like the list in general, but I would swap Memento and Sludge Bomb, personally. I can't picture a Weezing learning to cast a sinister shadow before learning to dispense a massive blob of poison.
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  31. #71
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    01|01 Poison Gas
    01|01 Tackle
    09|09 Smog
    13|13 Smokescreen
    19|19 Selfdestruct
    25|25 Sludge
    29|29 Afterburn
    33|33 Haze
    39|40 Sludge Bomb
    45|47 Explosion
    49|52 Destiny Bond
    53|56 Momento

    Better? Any complaints?

    Also, Egg Moves:
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyndadile View Post
    Options: Grimer, Koffing, Duskull, Jackalant, Misticade, Mirust, Phantasomo, Atlaxa, Cirroft

    Screech - None (Used to be Grimer, but we removed it)
    Psywave - Phantasomo
    Psybeam - None
    Destiny Bond - Koffing, Misticade, Mirust, Phantasomo
    Pain Split - Atlaxa
    Will-o-wisp - Duskull, Jackalant
    Should we just remove the missing moves?

  32. #72
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    Wasn't Burnout in contention? 3 death-related moves in a row, but that's not too much of an issue. But yes, remove the moves that can't be learned and let's replace them.

  33. #73
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    Any replacement suggestions? Also, what do you mean about Burnout?

  34. #74
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    Burnout was suggested before and received mostly positive response as a mostly different way to play Weezing. (Endure/Salac/Burnout/Pain Split seems fun). Memento could be moved up and Burnout be placed between it and Destiny Bond.

  35. #75
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    Soo...
    01|01 Poison Gas
    01|01 Tackle
    09|09 Smog
    13|13 Smokescreen
    19|19 Selfdestruct
    25|25 Sludge
    29|29 Afterburn
    33|33 Haze
    39|40 Sludge Bomb
    45|47 Explosion
    49|52 Destiny Bond
    53|57 Burnout
    59|64 Memento
    ?

    Just incase people didn't notice it's
    +4|+5
    +4|+5
    +6|+7
    +6|+7
    for the pattern.

  36. #76
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    I can live with that.

  37. #77
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    So, how about them egg moves? We're down by two. Should we add a couple fire moves? I'm sure jackalant/phantern can be fathers for several of those.

    Psywave - Phantasomo
    Destiny Bond - Koffing, Misticade, Mirust, Phantasomo
    Pain Split - Atlaxa
    Will-o-wisp - Duskull, Jackalant

  38. #78
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    Jackalant and Phantern surprisingly don't have any Fire moves that aren't TMs or Will o' Wisp.

    Scary Face seems interesting and fitting. What about that?

  39. #79
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    That seems good. And basically every ghost-type has it, so we shouldn't have trouble finding a father.

  40. #80
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    Agreed.

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