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Thread: Gym Leaders; Who And Where Are They?

  1. #121
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    I also like that spelling of Jayne - simple sound; not as bland look.

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  2. #122
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    I tried so hard not to miss any... quite right IR.


  3. #123
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    Oh, no... I'm sure you counted right. You just "made a typo," right? *winkwinknudgenudge* :P
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  4. #124
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    Dragon: Matthew or George
    Poison: Daphne
    Rock: Jasper
    Ghost: Echo or Damian

    who, me? favoritism? never! >_> <_<

    For Normal....Gerry, Eric (both stemming from 'generic'), or.....I guess Janye or Jayna works fine. I can't come up with much for this one.

    (also, I'd argue Agatha could be considered a Poison trainer rather than a Ghost trainer, but whatever. and I wouldn't call George a 'subtle' reference - it's obvious enough to me.)
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  5. #125
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    Eric sounds better for the normal one...or Jenna, if we need another female.

  6. #126
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    As far as naming is concerned, we can use the other topic for naming discussions in future.
    For discussion purposes, we can use their current names:
    Dragon: Wolfe
    Poison: Bella
    Rock: Crys
    Normal: Jayne (Jane)
    or refer to them as "the ___ gym leader," if you detest the name.

    Now, we ought to focus on:
    1. lineups, move sets ect.,
    2. the themes of each gym, including gym puzzle ideas that go along with them. (and by extension the themes of towns who may be at this point vague or unrelated)
    3. the order of the gyms (but this is partly based on 1 and what Pokemon are available for each type)


  7. #127
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    ...k, so I guess I'll start.

    XTS posted this a while back, with the appropriate Pokemon for each leader/e4 (with my additions in bold, from the removal of Fighting and creation of Normal):

    Ghost E4 - Phantasomo, Dusclops, Misticade, Misdreavus, Ferrian
    Light E4 - Purior, Slowpriest, Ampharos, Espeon, Illumbra, Blitzfaust
    Water E4 - Tidasale, Starmie, Lanturn, Ludicolo, Kraklaw
    Steel E4 - Scizor, Skarmory, Quiisord, Metusk, Arowana

    Layla - Noctiger, Malduval, Harskrow, Vilephist, Sereberine
    Osiro - Destado, Sandslash, Cackinge, Flygon, Khaphix
    Christina - Frostorm, Iglonia, Polarice, Kunaiga, Wolfrost
    Gerad - Stribra, Jolteon, Nimbolt, Bakurge
    Rock gym - Rhydon, Tsunall, Ingero, Leoracle
    Light gym - Coroona, Seraph, Thoraxa, Purior
    Dragon gym - Tropius, Malistril, Lapras, Drakodo
    Poison gym - Kondria, Qwilfish, Pythang, Weezing
    Normal gym - Firrel, Gyphonic, Zantilidae, Miltank, Tauros
    I think that based on the order that we choose, we can cut/downgrade some of them. Here is my suggestion:

    1. Jane: Grific, Tauros, Zantilidae
    2. Bella: Qwilfish, Kondria, Pythang
    3. Tristan: Coroona, Seraph, Thoraxa, Purior
    4. Wolfe: Tropius, Malistril, Lapras, Drakodo
    5. Crys: Rhydon, Tsunall, Ingero, Leoracle
    6. Gerad - Stribra, Jolteon, Nimbolt, Bakurge
    7. Christina - Frostorm, Iglonia, Polarice, Kunaiga, Wolfrost
    8. Osiro - Destado, Sandslash, Cackinge, Flygon, Khaphix
    9. Layla - Noctiger, Malduval, Harskrow, Vilephist, Sereberine

    Then, the E4 exactly as above, but with Blitzfaust replacing Espeon:
    Ghost E4 - Phantasomo, Dusclops, Misticade, Misdreavus, Ferrian
    Light E4 - Purior, Slowpriest, Ampharos, Illumbra, Blitzfaust
    Water E4 - Tidasale, Starmie, Lanturn, Ludicolo, Kraklaw
    Steel E4 - Scizor, Skarmory, Quiisord, Metusk, Arowana

    I know this list isn't perfect because I haven't really considered too much, this is just what I think would work based on what we have and avoiding overlaps. PLEASE point out anything you would like to change, whether it be order or Pokemon or evolutions. Really, anything. OR make your own if you find this one to be to riddled with flaws to be saved.


  8. #128
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    Only problem that i have is that there is 4 gyms in a row that have 4 pokemon, before you have 5 to fight.. I think it should be mixed up some, like 3 here, 5 there, 6 here or there, maybe one with only , and 4 here or there. I always found the nearly constant rise in the number of gym leader pokemon. I think it would be cool to mix it up a little, though maybe keep it low leveled in the beginning, then mix it how you want toward the end. But that's just me.
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  9. #129
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    I see I'm coming into this discussion rather late, so I apologize. Here are some of my takes on what Reli has posted:
    1. Jane: Grific, Tauros, Zantilidae
    Depending on when this gym comes into play, Zantilidae might be a bit overkill. Tauros I can see being used, and Zangoose as well, but definitely not both.

    2. Bella: Qwilfish, Kondria, Pythang
    Again, Pythang would be slightly extreme this early in the game. Thoraxa might be a decent alternative here.

    3. Tristan: Coroona, Seraph, Thoraxa, Purior
    If we're going to have a Light E4 member, Tristan's team should probably get an overhaul (like a new type).

    4. Wolfe: Tropius, Gryphonic, Drakodo, Malistril
    Lapras doesn't make any sense to me if he's supposed to be a user of Dragon-like Pokemon. If you ask me, Gryphonic or Tellure are the closest you'll get without adding Kipporok or Typhidna into the mix. Only other change I would make would be making Malistril the star of his team rather than Drakodo.

    5. Crys: Rhydon, Tsunall, Ingero, Leoracle
    Seems fine to me.

    6. Gerad - Nimbolt, Stribra, Jolteon, Bakurge
    Also pretty good, but I think Nimbolt should start the team.

    7. Christina - Frostorm, Lapras, Iglonia, Polarice, Kunaiga
    I was one of the main campaigners against Christina having both Wolfrost and Kunaiga at one time (at least at the beginning). In my opinion, they just don't belong together. Lapras at least prevents Fire-types from ramming through the team.

    8. Osiro - Destado, Sandslash, Cackinge, Flygon, Khaphix
    As I recall, this was the set we all agreed on. Fine with me.

    9. Layla - Noctiger, Malduval, Harskrow, Vilephist, Sereberine
    I might have thrown Dionare somewhere in the mix, but otherwise I see no problems with this set either.
    EDIT: As for the E4:
    Ghost E4 - Phantasomo, Dusclops, Misticade, Misdreavus, Ferrian
    If Phantern isn't in the Grass gym, he should definitely be on this list somewhere. Otherwise I'm okay with it.

    Light E4 - Purior, Dolphure, Ampharos, Blitzfaust, Illumbra
    I think Illumbra should be the star, personally.

    Water E4 - Starmie, Reefrain, Lanturn, Ludicolo, Kraklaw
    I think Reefrain is better, as he prevents Electrics from running all over him (although Lanturn can be of some help in that regard)

    Steel E4 - Scizor, Skarmory, Quiisord, Metusk, Arowana
    I'm fine with this set.
    Last edited by PokePoindexter; 01-06-11 at 04:31 AM.
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  10. #130
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    As the 6th gym leader with a very underwhelming Kondria on her team, I feel that Bella needs Pythang over the rather lacklustre Seviper, especially with only 3 members in her team.

    Tristan shouldn't get a type change IMO. The cool part about seeing him twice is seeing his evolution, and a type change kind of makes you think "Why didn't they just get another character instead?" Also, the player has never seen a Light-type Gym leader or E4 before, and so this gives the type a chance to shine in both. I'm actually not sold on him getting Blitzfaust in the E4, since that's Bradley's signature Pokemon. Tellure seems sufficiently light-lke. Phantasomo seems like a good choice, especially since you then can drop Phantasomo from the Ghost E4 in favour of Phantern.

  11. #131
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    Okay, how about this? If I changed something, it's detailed in the Italics. I also did not comment if the lineup is the same as my original.

    1. Jane: Grific, Zantilidae
    It really want to keep Zantilidae on this team, simply because it adds to the rivalry between the poison and normal gyms. I feel like if we use Zangoose here, we would have to use Seviper in the next one instead of Pythang. And highlighting the new Pokemon is kinda nice. If we just have the two (much like Whitney in GSC) can that work level-wise?
    2. Bella: Qwilfish, Kondria, Pythang
    If still needed, we can take out Kondria (or Qwilfish) and use it as a gym trainer Pokemon to take down the difficulty.
    3. Tristan: Coroona, Seraph, Thoraxa, Purior
    This is fine.
    4. Wolfe: Tropius, Gryphonic, Drakodo, Malistril
    Or, do we want to use Cragoyle? He isn't in the Rock team, and he's more dragon-looking than Gryphonic.
    5. Crys: Rhydon, Tsunall, Ingero, Leoracle
    6. Gerad - Nimbolt, Stribra, Jolteon, Bakurge
    7. Christina - Frostorm, Lapras, Iglonia, Polarice, Kunaiga
    I'm fine with this. But I'd like it if we can find somewhere else to use Wolfrost.
    8. Osiro - Destado, Sandslash, Cackinge, Flygon, Khaphix
    9. Layla - Noctiger, Malduval, Harskrow, Vilephist, Sereberine

    Ghost E4 - Phantern, Dusclops, Misticade, Misdreavus, Ferrian
    Phantern (missed him originally >.<) replacing Phatasomo.
    Light E4 - Purior, Dolphure, Ampharos, Phantasomo, Illumbra
    Phantasomo added over Blitzfaust.
    Water E4 - Starmie, Reefrain, Lanturn, Ludicolo, Kraklaw
    This works for me.
    Steel E4 - Scizor, Skarmory, Quiisord, Metusk, Arowana

    I'm sure they are somewhere, but we have the line-ups for the rivals worked out, right? Including Vincent's Champion lineup?


  12. #132
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    My response comments:

    Jane: Then I'm thinking we should replace Tauros (otherwise we have two physical normal-types with identical Speed; doesn't seem very appealing), perhaps with Firrel (or Persian, who is still ridiculously fast, but much more Special-based).

    Bella: Well, if it's later on than I thought it would be, maybe replacing Kondria or Qwilfish with somebody else (Venomoth, maybe?).

    Tristan: Fine with me.

    Wolfe: Good point, I forgot about Cragoyle. Either one would work, I think.

    As for Wolfrost, I was thinking he could be used on Chuck's team (if that's still in there), or, he could be added if we choose to do Post-E4 lineups (like those in Emerald).

    Phantern's actually on Fernando's team, so I wouldn't object if you chose to scrap what I said earlier.

    I bet it's easy to tell I encourage diversity among teams.
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  13. #133
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    Persian would be very hard to deal with considering that its Cunning Swift is awfully powerful for that point in the game. It'd be cool but could cause tons of problems.

  14. #134
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    I like diversity, but i also would like for some competitiveness. The canon gym leaders are all so easy, all they do is attack, and defend, no set-ups, almost no flair, and too much redundency in their teams. I hope the actual stats and such for these, or at least some of the later gym leaders, adds to more of a challenge.
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  15. #135
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    Is there no competitiveness in trying to beat Whitney's Miltank? In handling abuse from Flannery's Torkoal? Fantina's whole team in DP? You're not going to tell me those are ridiculously easy, are you (at least the first time you fight them if you do rematches later)?

    Anyway, I've been encouraging spread-out stats; that's why I campaigned against both Tauros and Zantilidae on one gym team, and in support of not using both Wolfrost and Kunaiga on Christina's lineup.
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    Whitney's Miltank was only hard becuase it used Milk Drink too damn much. Torkoal was way too easy, beat it my first time thru, same with Fantina. Though that's partly becuase i never played Platinum (Pearl FTW), and therefore, no rematch.

    I noticed that, but i meant AI wise, as well as hold item/move/ability/stat wise. Give them natures that actually help. How about some scarf sets, or Salac berries? Have the computer THINK ahead, or use set ups for a Baton Pass or something. Instead of just all STAB moves, give them some off market, or even chain-bred/egg moves, provide a challenge worthy of the title GYM LEADER.

    But now i'm seriously digressing into a subject that is best reserved for when we finalize the line-ups, and detail each one more thoroughly.
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  17. #137
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    There's a fine line between a diverse challenge and requiring massive amounts of grinding, though. We have to keep that in mind.

  18. #138
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    Who said anything about grindng though? We can tone down the levels, and up the difficulty (and, obviously make it increasingly difficult, starting with simply attack, defend, heal strategy, and working up toward sub net battle standard. I mean how would you feel about fighting a net battle difficulty Froy?) and everything would be honkey-dory, right?

    Also, grinding is all I ever really had to do to beat the canon gyms. Grind until a specific type pokemon on my team is a high enough level, and sweep through the gym with just that pokemon. It's boring, and tedious, and not fun. The only gym I've ever had trouble on, and was a real challenge, was Blue in GSC/Giovanni in RBY. And even then, they used the same attack/defend/heal strategy that all AI trainers use outside of the Battle Tower/Frontier.

    Also, the most any gym leader used in terms of items was an Aspear Berry, or a Super/Hyper potion/Full Restore.

    I don't mean for this to be on par with Net Battle, and other Simulators, but I would at least like to actually have to think a bit about what I'm doing.

    This is obviously a losing argument for me, so I'm just going to stop here...
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  19. #139
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    Grinding will still work to get through most of the gyms if people aren't competitive enough to make strategy and such. It dosen't matter how epic their strategy is if all of your Pokemon are 10+ levels higher than their's.

    The only reason that I'm a little wary is that I'm not sure about programming. The 'attack/defend/heal' is probably much easier to program, and it dosen't hinge on what the player does, as most competitive strategies would need to do in order to be effective. If it can be done, then I think it's worth discussing. But if it can't be done, or done well, then it wouldn't really work.


  20. #140
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    Ok, I can se where that is coming from, and it's a viable reason. I would be willing to discuss it as well, if it's viable.
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  21. #141
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    Also, you can't expect everyone who downloads this game and attempts to play it to be familiar with PO or Shoddy.
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  22. #142
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    I myself don't know much of how competitive gaming works, i just thought it would add a nice little bit of flair that would make our game stand out more than it already is.
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