Help a Noob in Need? :D

[Irot_Rebod]

So... I've never actually been that great at Pokemon. I mean, I hold my own playing the game and whatever, but sometimes when playing against my friends, I get destroyed. Laughably.

My friends invited me to a Pokemon tourney that they are hosting after HGSS comes out. I figured, why not, the worst is I get thoroughly embarrassed. XP The tourney is divided into three sections... there are OU, UU, and NU sections. Pokemon are expected to be level 100. For one reason or another, no legendaries are allowed. I was wondering if you pros out there could give me a few tips on how to improve the teams I've set up:

- OU Team -
Gengar @Quick Claw
Hasty 255 S. Attack / 255 Speed
Levitate
HP 60, Attack 65, Defense 60, S. Attack 130, S. Defense 75, Speed 110, Total 500
Dream Eater, Hypnosis, Mean Look, Substitute

Gyarados @Choice Band
Jolly 255 Attack / 255 Speed
Intimidate
HP 95, Attack 125, Defense 79, S. Attack 60, S. Defense 100, Speed 81, Total 540
Aqua Tail, Dragon Dance, Earthquake, Outrage

Heracross @Expert Belt
Jolly 255 Attack / 255 Speed
Guts
HP 80, Attack 125, Defense 75, S. Attack 40, S. Defense 95, Speed 85, Total 500
Close Combat, Megahorn, Shadow Claw, Stone Edge

Metagross @Wise Glasses
Brave 255 Attack / 255 S. Attack
Clear Body
HP 80, Attack 135, Defense 130, S. Attack 95, S. Defense 90, Speed 70, Total 600
Earthquake, Meteor Mash, Psychic, Stealth Rock

Snorlax @Leftovers
Relaxed 255 HP / 255 Defense
Immunity
HP 160, Attack 110, Defense 65, S. Attack 65, S. Defense 110, Speed 30, Total 540
Giga Impact, Gunk Shot, Seed Bomb, Substitute

Tyranitar @Expert Belt
Adamant 255 Attack / 255 Speed
Sand Stream
HP 100, Attack 134, Defense 110, S. Attack 95, S. Defense 100, Speed 61, Total 600
Aerial Ace, Avalanche, Earthquake, Stone Edge
- End Team -

- UU Team -
Drapion @Quick Claw
Adamant 255 Attack / 255 Speed
Battle Armor
HP 70, Attack 90, Defense 110, S. Attack 60, S. Defense 75, Speed 95, Total 500
Aqua Tail, Cross Poison, Night Slash, Toxic Spikes

Kabutops @Quick Claw
Adamant 255 Attack / 255 Speed
Battle Armor
HP 60, Attack 115, Defense 105, S. Attack 65, S. Defense 70, Speed 80, Total 495
Night Slash, Stealth Rock, Stone Edge, X-Scissor

Porygon-Z @Wise Glasses
Modest 255 S. Attack / 255 Speed
Adaptability
HP 85, Attack 80, Defense 70, S. Attack 135, S. Defense 75, Speed 90, Total 535
Lock-On, Psychic, Tri Attack, Zap Cannon

Rhyperior @Expert Belt
Adamant 255 HP / 255 Attack
Solid Rock
HP 115, Attack 140, Defense 130, S. Attack 55, S. Defense 55, Speed 40, Total 535
Earthquake, Hammer Arm, Megahorn, Rock Wrecker

Spiritomb @Quick Claw
Quiet 255 HP / 255 S. Attack
Pressure
HP 50, Attack 92, Defense 108, S. Attack 92, S. Defense 108, Speed 35, Total 485
Dark Pulse, Destiny Bond, Shadow Ball, Toxic

Tangrowth @Leftovers
Quiet 255 HP / 255 S. Attack
Chlorophyll
HP 100, Attack 100, Defense 125, S. Attack 110, S. Defense 50, Speed 50, Total 535
Ancientpower, Giga Drain, Leech Seed, Toxic
- End Team -

- NU Team -
Banette @Quick Claw
Jolly 255 Attack / 255 Speed
Insomnia
HP 64, Attack 115, Defense 65, S. Attack 83, S. Defense 63, Speed 65, Total 455
Destiny Bond, Shadow Claw, Sucker Punch, Will-o-Wisp

Exeggutor @Leftovers
Modest 255 HP / 255 S. Attack
Chlorophyll
HP 95, Attack 95, Defense 85, S. Attack 125, S. Defense 65, Speed 55, Total 520
Leaf Storm, Leech Seed, Psychic, Toxic

Glalie @Quick Claw
Naïve 255 HP / 255 Speed
Inner Focus
HP 80, Attack 80, Defense 80, S. Attack 80, S. Defense 80, Speed 80, Total 480
Earthquake, Ice Beam, Super Fang, Toxic

Luxray @Choice Band
Adamant 255 Attack / 255 Speed
Intimidate
HP 80, Attack 120, Defense 79, S. Attack 95, S. Defense 79, Speed 70, Total 523
Crunch, Ice Fang, Roar, Thunder Fang

Pinsir @Expert Belt
Jolly 255 Attack / 255 Speed
Hyper Cutter
HP 65, Attack 125, Defense 100, S. Attack 55, S. Defense 70, Speed 85, Total 500
Close Combat, Stealth Rock, Stone Edge, X-Scissor

Sharpedo @Quick Claw
Adamant 255 Attack / 255 Speed
Rough Skin
HP 70, Attack 120, Defense 40, S. Attack 95, S. Defense 40, Speed 95, Total 460
Ice Fang, Night Slash, Waterfall, Zen Headbutt
- End Team -

I realize that one of my biggest faults is that I favor physical attack over special attack, but that was more coincidental as when I was first picking the Pokemon from each tier, I was just choosing ones that I liked and that varied in typing. I'm not sure what to do about that issue without completely changing my teams. s;

Anyways, if anybody could please give me some constructive criticism that I can work with, I'd really appreciate it. I really wanna surprise my friends and not be a complete failure this time around. ;p

Thanks in advance!
- IR

[zeroality]

Oh wow, I see so many things wrong with your OU team alone but I'm too tired to type out an essay. I'll get back to this tomorrow. It's good that you're trying to improve!

[Irot_Rebod]

Yep, I kinda figured. XD
I was afraid you'd all just laugh at the poor little nublet, so I almost didn't post anything at all. :P

Thanks ahead of time for when you do type up a response, I do really appreciate it. ^^'

[Pirotechnix]

Looking at the state of your team, like Zero said, to properly address everything would require the likes of a complete essay. While the selection of Pokemon is not bad in itself, the moveset/EV/item decisions being used are the major contributing factor as to why your teams are/are likely to get destroyed.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/

Take the time to read through the articles for each of the Pokemon you're looking at using so that you can get a better feel for movesets, as well as the rationale behind their use and the strategy used. Learning to actually "play" the team is something that can't be taught in theorymon (no matter what anyone will try to tell you), and will require you playtesting extensively to get a feel as to how to use your Pokemon and what to expect in terms of counters and the like.

[Irot_Rebod]

Thanks for the link, Piro. There's a lot of information that I'm finding to be quite useful there.
I tried modifying my OU team, tell me if this is any better or if it still needs some work:

- OU Team -
Gengar @Leftovers
Timid 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Levitate
HP 60, Atk 65, Def 60, SpA 130, SpD 75, Spe 110, Total 500
Focus Blast, Hypnosis, Shadow Ball, Substitute

Gyarados @Life Orb
Jolly 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Intimidate
HP 95, Atk 125, Def 79, SpA 60, SpD 100, Spe 81, Total 540
Aqua Tail, Dragon Dance, Earthquake, Stone Edge

Heracross @Choice Scarf
Jolly 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Guts
HP 80, Atk 125, Def 75, SpA 40, SpD 95, Spe 85, Total 500
Close Combat, Megahorn, Night Slash, Stone Edge

Metagross @Leftovers
Impish 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 Spe
Clear Body
HP 80, Atk 135, Def 130, SpA 95, SpD 90, Spe 70, Total 600
Earthquake, Explosion, Meteor Mash, Stealth Rock

Snorlax @Leftovers
Adamant 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD
Thick Fat
HP 160, Atk 110, Def 65, SpA 65, SpD 110, Spe 30, Total 540
Body Slam, Crunch, Earthquake, Selfdestruct

Tyranitar @Expert Belt
Adamant 252 HP / 32 Atk / 224 SpD
Sand Stream
HP 100, Atk 134, Def 110, SpA 95, SpD 100, Spe 61, Total 600
Crunch, Earthquake, Stealth Rock, Stone Edge
- End Team -

I can see where this team would be better than my first OU team, and I think that the Pokemon actually cover each other quite well.
Thanks for the help provided and help to come! :P

[zeroality]

Sorry for taking so long to respond.

Did you read the article on lead Pokemon? Lead Gengar isn't bad but gets outclassed by too many things - especially since Scarf Azelf is essentially the #1 lead and you'll take a Psychic to the face a lot of times. Sub is kinda situational but I see how it could work.

I don't know if I like wasting a Tyranitar moveslot on SR. You should regulate that to your lead Pokemon.

Waterfall over Aqua Tail on Gyarados please - 100% accuracy for 10 less power PLUS a flinch chance? Yes, I'll take that with an order of fries.

That Heracross is EXACTLY the same as the one I used to use. Good choice. :)

A 'backup' SR on Metagross is actually acceptable as his movepool isn't as diverse as Tyranitar's and the loss of an attacking slot doesn't cripple him nearly as bad offensively.

Snorlax doesn't pack enough power without Curse or Choice Band, and looking at your set, you'll want CB. Two choice Pokemon on a team isn't necessarily a bad thing - I do it. :)

Your EVs still need a lot of work. I took the liberty of uploading IPL's Advanced EV Optimization Guide. Be warned though, that you will need to scroll down if you are looking for specific sections, the anchor links don't work due to the current htaccess setup.

(warning, nostalgia bomb if you were around back then)
http://www.pokemontopaz.net/zero/evs/evs.html

Ultimately, the only way to get better is to practice. Shoddy Battle (http://www.shoddybattle.com) is a good place to do it. It'd be nice if you got Shoddy, you could be our 8th regular for tournaments.

Edit: I got bored and instead of working on IRC or skins, I did this (http://www.obscuregames.net/portfolio/). Another nostalgia PR design.

[Irot_Rebod]

Thanks for the tips, zero. I'll look them over and apply changes where I see fit. I wouldn't mind joining Shoddy, either. It'd be great for practice! :D

Here's my other two teams with some major changes... still a work in progress, but...

- UU Team -
Drapion @Scope Lens
Jolly
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Sniper
HP 70, Atk 90, Def 110, SpA 60, SpD 75, Spe 95, Total 500
Earthquake, Ice Fang, Night Slash, Toxic Spikes

Kabutops @Focus Sash
Adamant
74 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Battle Armor
HP 60, Atk 115, Def 105, SpA 65, SpD 70, Spe 80, Total 495
Aqua Jet, Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, Stone Edge

Porygon-Z @Choice Specs
Modest
4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Adaptability
HP 85, Atk 80, Def 70, SpA 135, SpD 75, Spe 90, Total 535
Dark Pulse, Psychic, Tri Attack, Ice Beam

Rhyperior @Choice Band
Adamant
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Solid Rock
HP 115, Atk 140, Def 130, SpA 55, SpD 55, Spe 40, Total 535
Aqua Tail, Earthquake, Megahorn, Stone Edge

Spiritomb @Choice Band
Adamant
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Pressure
HP 50, Atk 92, Def 108, SpA 92, SpD 108, Spe 35, Total 485
Dark Pulse, Shadow Sneak, Trick, Will-o-Wisp

Tangrowth @Leftovers
Bold
252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spe
Chlorophyll
HP 100, Atk 100, Def 125, SpA 110, SpD 50, Spe 50, Total 535
Ancientpower, Giga Drain, Leech Seed, Toxic
- End Team -

- NU Team -
Banette @Focus Sash
Adamant
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Insomnia
HP 64, Atk 115, Def 65, SpA 83, SpD 63, Spe 65, Total 455
Destiny Bond, Knock Off, Shadow Claw, Will-o-Wisp

Exeggutor @Choice Specs
Timid
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Chlorophyll
HP 95, Atk 95, Def 85, SpA 125, SpD 65, Spe 55, Total 520
Explosion, Leaf Storm, Leech Seed, Psychic

Glalie @Leftovers
Bold
204 HP / 52 Def / 252 Spe
Inner Focus
HP 80, Atk 80, Def 80, SpA 80, SpD 80, Spe 80, Total 480
Explosion, Ice Beam, Shadow Ball, Spikes

Luxray @Choice Band
Adamant
40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Intimidate
HP 80, Atk 120, Def 79, SpA 95, SpD 79, Spe 70, Total 523
Crunch, Ice Fang, Roar, Thunder Fang

Pinsir @Focus Sash
Jolly
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Mold Breaker
HP 65, Atk 125, Def 100, SpA 55, SpD 70, Spe 85, Total 500
Earthquake, Stealth Rock, Stone Edge, X-Scissor

Sharpedo @Choice Band
Adamant
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Rough Skin
HP 70, Atk 120, Def 40, SpA 95, SpD 40, Spe 95, Total 460
Ice Fang, Night Slash, Waterfall, Zen Headbutt
- End Team -

I realize it's still a work in progress, so feel free to give me advice if you see any sore spots! Thanks! :D

EDIT: Yep, nostalgia just hit me like a brick. XD

[zeroality]

I don't do NU or UU so I only glanced but what stood out was non-STAB Sharpedo and non-Rain Dance Kabutops. I can't really comment though, I lost the UU and NU tournaments first round.

[Limkins]

The main problem I see on your OU team is that it's waaaay too offensive physically. There's just one special attacker, you lack a tank/cleric. Snorlax will get whitewashed by physical hits since you haven't focused on his defense at all. If I'm honest, a Garchomp would slam you pretty hard. You need something like Suicune or Skarmory. Suicune would be especially good for your team in place of Gyarados imo since it would act as a tank but also dish out some Special attacks to back up Gengar. There's my 2 cents. Sorry if it sounded harsh at the start.

[zeroality]

My team is 100% offense too but yeah, that won't get you much past 1450 CRE on smogon. I tried using one of IPL's stall teams and failed hard.

[Limkins]

Majority of my teams are built on the offensive but some of the attackers still need to be able to take a hit or 2 imo. Like Suicune or Restalk Zapdos feature heavily on my teams as they have longevity and can cause an onslaught.

Which IPL Stall team did you use? I've tried his Skarmory/Blissey/Milotic/Claydol/Zapdos/(Forgot the 6th one) And although it takes shit long to even bring down opponents, and has boring fights, it works really well.

[zeroality]

Blissey/Forretress/Celebi/somethingelse.

[Limkins]

Hahaha that's the 6th one, Celebi. Couldn't think if it was that or Forrtress but it's definately Celebi.

[SilentSentinel]

Since this is here, think you guys could help me with mine?

Ninjask @ Leftovers
Jolly
178HP/252Atk/80Spe
Speed Boost
Swords Dance, Substitute, Baton Pass, X Scissor
My lead. Uses substitute and swords dance, then passes to one of my physical sweepers. 4x weakness to Stealth Rock is a big problem for me since I usually only get to use it once or twice.

Breeloom @ Toxic Orb
Adamant
48HP/252Atk/208Spd
Poison Heal
Spore, Substitute, Focus Punch, Seed Bomb
One of the sweepers ninjask passes to. The Speed Boost really helps him out, and he can set up a substitute fairly regulary with Spore in tow.

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Sassy
252HP/86Atk/80Def/92SDef IV: 0Spd
Levitate
Earthquake, Gyro Ball, Stealth Rock, Explosion
Another Physical Attacker. Don't usually pass to him in order to keep Gyro Ball powerful. Can set up steath rock, so I try to get him out fairly early.

Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Jolly
252Atk/4Def/252Spd
Snow Cloak
Ice Shard, Earthquake, Stone Edge, Superpower
The other pokemon that I pass to often, since he could use the speed boost. Ice Shard is good for revenge killing if need be, and Earthquake combined with Stone Edge give great coverage.

Starmie @ Choice Specs
Timid
4HP/252Spd/252SAtk
Natural Cure
Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Psychic
I was in the middle of building this team, and realized I had four pokemon that were weak to fire. Starmie is a fast yet powerful special-based pokemon that does a decent job of fixing this problem.

Blissey @ Leftovers
Calm
252Def/176Spd/80SAtk
Natural Cure
Protect, Wish, Toxic, Flamethrower
Well I gotta have at least one super-overused pokemon, right? Blissey doesn't really need a whole lot of explanation.

This team is great for killing people that arent very good, but most everyone over 900 kills me easily. Obviously I still have a big fire weakness, but I'm not sure what more to do about that.

[ImmunityBow]

You might want to find a better way around Scizor than Flamethrower Blissey. Bronzong only delays the inevitable.

[SilentSentinel]

Infernape maybe?

[zeroality]

I find a good counter to most Scizor is your own Jolly Scizor who can Superpower first and it's a welcome addition to just about any team.

Drop Ninjask though. If you want to bp stuff, try a better baton passer. Even Umbreon is better at it (passing Curse to a White Herb Pokemon).

[SilentSentinel]

Really? I always thought Ninjask was good because of the passive speed ups. I might redo my whole team.

[Limkins]

Ninjask @ Leftovers
Jolly
178HP/252Atk/80Spe
Speed Boost
Swords Dance, Substitute, Baton Pass, X Scissor
My lead. Uses substitute and swords dance, then passes to one of my physical sweepers. 4x weakness to Stealth Rock is a big problem for me since I usually only get to use it once or twice.

Don't waste precious EVs on health unless you're substituting down to 1hp for berry activation (which you're not). Focus primarily on speed and attack if you think you could sweep given the chance

Breeloom @ Toxic Orb
Adamant
48HP/252Atk/208Spd
Poison Heal
Spore, Substitute, Focus Punch, Seed Bomb
One of the sweepers ninjask passes to. The Speed Boost really helps him out, and he can set up a substitute fairly regulary with Spore in tow.

Breloom isn't as good as people make out, it's defences are quite poor so it won't survive a hit. Plus you can't really hit Gengar hard tbh without a swords dance and you're even more screwed against Gyarados/Charizard

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Sassy
252HP/86Atk/80Def/92SDef IV: 0Spd
Levitate
Earthquake, Gyro Ball, Stealth Rock, Explosion
Another Physical Attacker. Don't usually pass to him in order to keep Gyro Ball powerful. Can set up steath rock, so I try to get him out fairly early.

Your 3rd pokemon in a row that Infernape will savagely rape. If I was you, I'd try not to use this as an attacker per se, just spiker and rest stalk it aswell for longevity

Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Jolly
252Atk/4Def/252Spd
Snow Cloak
Ice Shard, Earthquake, Stone Edge, Superpower
The other pokemon that I pass to often, since he could use the speed boost. Ice Shard is good for revenge killing if need be, and Earthquake combined with Stone Edge give great coverage.

Fairly good receiver of the speed, better than Breloom imo, this set essentially hits everything and everything quite hard. Your problem here is possibly the poor typing of Mamoswine meaning Ice attacks are neutral so even non-surf Swampert could put up a fight here

Starmie @ Choice Specs
Timid
4HP/252Spd/252SAtk
Natural Cure
Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Psychic
I was in the middle of building this team, and realized I had four pokemon that were weak to fire. Starmie is a fast yet powerful special-based pokemon that does a decent job of fixing this problem.

As you think just Starmie alone will counter fire types, you'd be fooled. You're running a major risk for one having choice specs on your ONLY fire resist. Say you use ice beam, kill their whatever and they send in a fire type. Not only does another mon need to take a pointless hit (Possibly OHKOing your new mon), this has to switch back for a rather predictable Hydro Pump. I'd say just attach a Life Orb so you don't claustraphobisze your attacking options in one go. Add Recover over Psychic so you can at least recover damage done by life orb.

Blissey @ Leftovers
Calm
252Def/176Spd/80SAtk
Natural Cure
Protect, Wish, Toxic, Flamethrower
Well I gotta have at least one super-overused pokemon, right? Blissey doesn't really need a whole lot of explanation.

This isn't even used for Cleric purposes.... Whhhhhhyy? Your team needs it majorly since it relies a lot on speed (going first) to be any use. Wish passing is useful for your team in the given circumstances but I'd say just cleric it

This team is great for killing people that arent very good, but most everyone over 900 kills me easily. Obviously I still have a big fire weakness, but I'm not sure what more to do about that.

For your fire weak, I'd advise you to use Milotic over Starmie cos it can set up Light Screen protection from Fire aswell as Hypnosis status people. And it still resists fire pretty awesomely. Also lose Breloom imo for possibly Flygon (If you're a badass anyways, Garchomp if not). or even Rhyperior. Rhyperior and Flygon both resist fire so it might be worth a look at.

Hope this helped somehow.

[ImmunityBow]

Was Garchomp un-uberised? If not then he won't be using that on his team. I just checked Policy Review and it looks like not, though the Smogon tier list is down for now so I could be wrong.

[SilentSentinel]

They recently put Cresellia and Porygon-Z in UU from what I was reading in their lastest article thing. Maybe I'll remake my UU team as well. Thanks to everyone for the advice, I'll try and post a revamped team tommorow.

[Limkins]

He's playing irl against friends, Garchomp is OU irl play since it's not as easy to over power unlike through online simulators. Plus how on earth is Cresselia and Porygon Z downed to UU? Unless Smogon have muffed up (hacked) then it's a lie. Cresselia can survive a Swords Danced Outrage from a Jolly 252 atk ev Garchomp. Its defences rival even those of the none stonewalls. As for Porygon Z, it's a better special attacker than Salamence, with a far better movepool. It's speed isn;t exactly shabby either.

[Shadow_Rukario]

Cressy and Porygon-Z both got dropped down to UU. Cressy was rendered obsolete because of how common Scizor and Tyranitar are; she also faced major competition from Latias in the OU Metagame. Z pretty much was tossed down by Scizor and other priority abusers. Then they were both far too powerful for the UU Metagame, so they bumped them up to BL.

[ImmunityBow]

They changed the UU process. Basically things that aren't mathematically OU (I think the formula was the top 80% total uses on Shoddy) are UU unless they happened and broke UU, in which case they are BL.

Porygon Z and Cressy would be UU simply because they're not used enough, nothing to do with power levels (Case in point: Slaking in NU). I don't think they're quite out of UU yet. Porygon Z maybe but Cressy is still in testing I think.

[zeroality]

PZ and Cress are being tested as UU suspects and might get voted out. Cresselia is very likely to get banned based on the defensive characteristics.

[Limkins]

I think it's so stupid that they would dumb them both down to the UU/BL tiers. Cressilia will not get killed in UU unless they allow a Houndoom to Nasty Plot up like twice and hit it with Dark Pulse. Even then it might not die. I hope Cressy remains OU tbh. As for PZ, it's understandable there's better special sweepers than it in OU but then again, there's so much more better Ubers than Mew, rarely will anyone use mew yet they haven't dumbed that down to OU.

[ImmunityBow]

They have thought about testing Mew in OU though.

[zeroality]

Mew can be a nasty baton passer. D: I think it'd become the first suspect to get banned on the support characteristic.

[ImmunityBow]

I can't be sure but I think Deoxys-E was banned on that already, because it's an amazing lead and staller among its offensive capabilities.

[Limkins]

A lot can be nasty baton passers given the chance to set up. The thing with putting ubers into OU is it completely changes the way teams are built to acustom these metagame changes.

Deoxys E has no real offensive capabilities lawl. A maxed attacked Super Power does just under 2 thirds of Blisseys health with a maxed defence. What kind of offensive is that when like a Bullet Punch from a max attack Scizor does roughly the same. Deoxys E can't stand attacks for shit, it's almost guaranteed to be 2HKO'd by neutral or super effective moves. With teams running Scizor as their lead so common these days, Deoxys E can't stand a chance. It's only advantage is it's a fast spikes setter. Plus it can't stall for shit considering it barely gets near 300 Def/SpDef maxed out anyways. Cresselia is probably better than Deoxys E in stalling and offensive and that's saying a lot.

[ImmunityBow]

I believe double screen Deoxys-E was one of the most dominant forces for a while, so it must have been doing something right defensively.

[zeroality]

Ah right. Forgot Deoxys-E.

[Limkins]

Anything that can set up double screen does something well defensively tbh...

[ImmunityBow]

But generally they don't have access to Taunt, okay-ish defenses, 180 base speed, Recover, Stealth Rock, Spikes, and all sorts of offensive moves with decent enough stats to use them all in one package.

[Limkins]

If you're setting up double screen, you normally don't do spiking aswell as trying to be offensive.

[ImmunityBow]

But just the fact that Deoxys-E could be running a more offensive spread is enough to keep away a lot of would-be counters. If he comes up and first turn sets up Light Screen, are you going to switch to Heracross or Tyranitar?

[Limkins]

I didn't quite understand that. Say this happens

Turn 1 - Deoxys E uses Light Screen. I switch to TTar/Heracross.
Turn 2 - ??? - I'm presuming you mean Deoxys E will now hit either with some kind of offensive move. You have to hope you kill it in one shot otherwise the plan is kinda blown for Deoxys E to do anything contributing other than set up screens then.

Are you saying if Deoxys E had a set like LScreen/Psychic/ShadowBall/FocusBlast etc? Or still on dual-screening?

Plus Scizor resists just about anything Deoxys E could throw at it besides HP Fire...but who would even bother with HP Fire on a Deoxys E.

[ImmunityBow]

Yeah, Scizor is always a pain to every non-offensive moveset.

But say if you know Deoxys-E has LScreen/Reflect/Stealth Rock/One offensive move, then what would you switch in? TTar, wait for Superpower? Heracross, wait for Psychic? Blissey, wait for Superpower/Taunt? Gyarados, get Taunted? Until you know the entirety of Deoxys-E's set, then it still remains dangerous (unless you're packing Scizor, but even then switching in Scizor, then KOing with something still allows for at least 2 turns of setup)

[Limkins]

SuperPower still needs 2hits to KO Blissey/Ttar. I believe TTar would survive with around 5% HP anyways if it has a bit of spDef EVs anyways. I think Scizor could switch in, resist the hit, SD up cos you're gonna switch Deoxys E out no matter what, giving Scizor a free sweep unless you're gonna have Magnezone or w/e it's called switched in to hold it. I just doubt Deoxys E would break the OU metagame tbh. If Deoxys E has taunt....where's the offensive move? >_> Gyarados gets taunted, it'll just Waterfall/Aqua Tail it.... And probably do a bit of damage.

[ImmunityBow]

Superpower is an OHKO no matter what. It's a physical attack. For Blissey it isn't but that hardly matters since you'll be able to setup easily anyway.

Taunted Gyara is setup fodder for so many Pokemon it's almost not funny.

[how to do stuff]

i haven't actually played the game yet (my friend told me about it) but i think it could be good teams

[SilentSentinel]

Please don't revive threads that haven't been posted in for more than a month.