Mechanics of Time Travel

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  1. Cyndadile
    This is a really weird discussion to start with, I know, but it could potentially escalate into something.

    This was actually what made me make this group. I asked my friends the following question;
    What would you do if someone gave you a Time Machine?
    Most people said that they would go back and change something, which fuelled an argument in which they eventually tired of participating.
    Thus, I find that the best way to start this particular discussion is with a question.

    What would you do if someone gave you a Time Machine?
  2. NyteFyre
    I would go back, and Experience the golden age of gaming, when it was still a very reclusive and awesome thing. Gamers wouldn't have to worry about Noobs who can't play asking them for help, had all the best cheats, and the games were intelligent, and fun to play, even though they were lacking in the graphics department. Gamers used to be a very, VERY distinct class of human being, ones who would use cheats to enhance the experience, instead of haxing their way thru everything, people who COULD find the princess,people who COULD beat every level of the LOST LEVELS could get all the chaos emeralds and beat eggman, and have ALL UR BASES ARE BELONG TO US. These days, gaming is far too open, and easy to learn, allowing people who would have never thought of playing a video game before now to play them easily. Remember when gaming used to be considered a Nerd's Thing? I miss that, I really do.

  3. Cyndadile
    You would be able to do that with a Time Machine.
  4. SilentSentinel
    I'd go back to Friday and fix all the stupid mistakes I made on the calculus sig test. But that's not really something on a grand scale.

    In truth, I doubt I would actually change anything, but I would instead go back and see the ancient civilizations of the world, and how they truly lived before thousands of years of history covered them up. I'd probably check out the places where our modern religons of the world originated so I could see what really happened. You know, see if Jesus was a superhuman miracle worker or just some hippy. I'd mostly use the time machine for knowledge, and maybe to change who I start for my fantasy football team once or twice.
  5. Reliability
    I don't think that time travel will ever be possible, so the question is moot.
  6. Cyndadile
    Reli: People never thought that humans would be able to get giant machines to fly through the air, but they were wrong. People were sure that we would never make it into space. They were wrong. Not a hundred years ago, no one would have believed that almost all Americans would have devices smaller than a fist in their pockets that would allow them to communicate with each other at will. TVs. Touch screens. MRIs. Laptops. Radios. The Hubble space telescope. Electron microscopes. Calculators. Cars. Lightbulbs. DVDs. Get the picture? No one would have guessed that those would be possible. In reality, Time Travel is not that far of a strech.

    Rage: That second part is exactly what Time Travel enables you to do. Observe. You can't change the past using Time Travel, like your first comment. It took my friends longer than it probably should of to understand that. Changing the past is complicated, and involves paralell dimentions. Time Travel would not allow you to change the world's present. For instance, if you tried to save Lincoln from being shot, you would already know that you would fail. He was shot. There is no question about that.
  7. Reliability
    HOWEVER, all of those involve space and things that exist in our reality, so getting into space and using electrons and everything else is a lot simpler because it deals with physical things. But time is a completely different element all together, since it isn't tangible. (I know, you can't sense magnetic waves, but you can see the effects of them, "wind blowing the leaves" deal.) Time is a pretty abstract concept in itself.
    For example, if we ask "how long is a second?" the only way to really say for sure is to say "a sixtieth of a minute" or "10 tenths of a second." Therefore, I conclude that the only reason that we can measure time at all is in relation to other measurements, all of which are created by humans. Sure one revolution of the earth is a "day" and one full orbit around the sun is a "year", but those orbits shift. A change in earth's orbit cased the last ice age, and ever heard of daylight savings time? Our system of measuring time has flaws.

    The mechanics simply don't make sense, since our measurements are limited to stay within each other. SO, say we were able to build a time machine and wanted to go back "10 years", that would be impossible. Nature doesn't measure time, and there is no receiving station somewhere in the past to pinpoint the place in time that we mean to go to. Nor do I think that moving through time is possible anyway, since we still haven't developed teleportation, which is essentially the same concept, but moving through tangible space.

    So really, until someone can explain to me exactly how time travel would work, I'll remain unconvinced it will ever happen.
  8. Cyndadile
    So, what you are saying is that Time isn't Spacial. This is entirely true. But the opposite is also true; Space is not Temporal. You are asking me to describe Time in Spacial terms, but this is just as impossible as describing Space in Temporal terms. Yes, Space and Time can interact with each other, and can be affected by each other, but they cannot be described in the same way. Spacial elements do have Temporal properties, however, and Temporal elements have Spacial properties. This fact can be used and applied to the science of both Teleportation and Time Travel. We could use Spacial elements of Time to travel through Sapce without moving through time, and the opposite is just as true.
    You brought up the idea that all of our ways of measuring Time are relative. Can not the same be said for our means of measuring Space? How long is an inch? 1/12th of a foot. How long is a meter? 100 centimeters. Yes, all measurements of Time were created by humans, but all measurements of Space were too.

    A bit off topic, but still relevant to your idea; Teleportation. While Teleportation could work in the way you described, similar to Time Travel, there is a much easier way for it to work in a different manner, but it takes longer. It is therefore not a good solution for Teleportation to areas much farther than the Moon. Essentially, you are "scanned" at the broadcasting platform, the information on your structure is sent to a recieving station (multiple times for saftey), a copy of you is made at the recieving station as the broadcasting station dematerializes the origional.
  9. Reliability
    All of your statements about space and time are true, but my argument does not hinge on space being temporal. I think the most important part of my argument is that space is tangible and time is not, and the fact that elements are shared in each does not change this fact. Even though I'm sure we could use elements of space to move through time, these elements have never been specified.
    Airplanes for instance. Even before the first human flight, the approach necessary to achieve the goal is obvious: create wings that will use air pressure to their advantage and get enough power behind the plane to get it and it's passenger off the ground and keep it going once it's up there. The element of thrust might very well be necessary to time travel, but no one has really put together a list. If someone could provide me with the practical approach that would be necessary to achieve time travel, I would be more inclined to believe it is possible.

    As for measurements, you are correct again. However, time is constantly moving [forward] and space is pretty static. But saying 'here' to 'there' is visible to the eye. Saying 'then' to 'then' is more abstract and is not as acurately measurable.
    Analogy time! Wading through a stagnant pond is pretty easy. You can see how far you are through it. Wading against the flow of a river is more difficult. The water pushes against you, wanting to carry you forward with it. And even if you start walking, if you are only looking at the water it is unclear how far you've gone since the water is moving the other direction.
    (That wasn't explained very well.)

    The process you describe is creating a half-clone, not real teleportation, which requires the object to be dematerialized, not just copied. And this process would not work in a time travel sense (even if you didn't really mean that it was), since there would need to be the machine to create these clones in the past.
  10. Cyndadile
    Sorry that it has been so long, I havn't been able to find enough time to make a detailed response.

    Wait, am I getting somewhere? "Even though I'm sure we could use elements of space to move through time". It is a start, at least.

    I agree, your argument is not based on Space being Temporal. It seems that your argument is that Time is not Spacial. You want Time to be tangible, but that could never be the case. For that to be true, Time would have to be a Spacial object.

    There is an important differentiation that I would like to establish. You mentioned that Time is constantly moving forward. It is not. WE are constantly moving forward in Time. That is a common misconception, and correcting that assists in the explaination of how Time Travel could work. Time is like swinging on a swing, or driving a car, or flying in a plane, or other such thing. If we consider ourselves to be the origin, then yes, everything else is moving. But we need to talk from the point of view that the Reality Origin is the origin, and realize that we are the ones who are moving.

    I like your river analogy, actually. But I would like to modify it.
    You are swimming in the river. Your feet can reach the bottom, but it does not help, and you end up only kicking up sand. The river is pushing you forward at a constant pace. You can't swim back up the river, and swimming down the river doesn't have much effect. This aspect represents time. You can, however, swim back and forth, lengthwise across the river. The banks are too high to walk up, and you can't grip the edge, so you are stuck in the river. Let's say there was a stick floating in the river with you. It is several feet long, and can reach the bottom with ease. You jam the stick into the bottom, through the sand. If you hold on to the stick, the river just flows past you.
    Essentially, what I'm saying is that to stop time, you just need a stick. Not really.
    Before I continue, are you understanding this analogy? I'd rather not wate both of our time with an analogy that no one else understands.
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