Pokemon Black and White (5th generation) discussion

[Zenith]

What really bugs me is that they went with the typings that have been the most common with the starters. Seriously:
-Grass: one Grass/Poison, one Grass/Ground, two pure Grass
-Fire: one Fire/Flying, one pure Fire, one Fire/Fighting
-Water: one Water/Ground, one Water/Steel, two pure Water

And did they really make another Fire/Fighting line just so people who didn't know what they were doing would have a type advantage in the second gym? Really? Is that the reason they aren't Fire/Dark?

On the other hand, there's been some good stuff. Pretty mixed.

[Merlin]

yeah...
but the problem is when they changed things up the way they did in PDP...
they changed it from the types determining if they were physical/special to the moves having been predetermined....
i like it i just think they should've done that sometime ago like at least RSE/FRLG if not GSC...
my sister just about hates what they did there...
i don't mind it but they should realize that when they do this flaws and holes are going to be found in the series if they aren't careful plus tons of programming would have to be thoroughly searched to keep the old programming out even if they did write new code sets from scratch for the games...

I just hope they can explain certain things in this series in a way that it won't start opening up plot-holes... (btw tis fun to drive trucks into plot-holes)

[totodileman]

This is just sad...

some are uber for it...it looks not too good

[SilentSentinel]

I'd actually like it if that was real; less of a kiddy image with the guns and stuff. I'd probably go see it.

[NyteFyre]

I'm not sure how I would feel about that. It might be good to see, as long as it has a good plot, that isn't totally ruined by Hollywood edits.

[ImmunityBow]

I feel that Pokemon: The First Movie, was already good enough to be appreciated at an adult-level. D:

I'm also already drawing the comparisons between this and DB: Evolution, which was really bad.

[Silver]

rage
i was right

[SilentSentinel]

Indeed, which is why I will be boxing my starter seeing as they all suck, in both appearance and base stats. Its a good thing there are so many other good choices.

Ononokusu, for example. Base 147 attack and base 97 speed is devastating. It's guaranteed to be top OU and may even pull Garchomp back down.
Aaekosu sports base 140 attack, base 112 special attack, and base 110 speed. It will likely be one of the most dominant glass cannons ever.
Zororark has some interesting mixed capabilities with it and a good speed stat.

There are many other pokemon who should be great based on their stats.

As expected, the metagame will be shifted intensely. With the amount of super-high attacking stats, there will be an even greater focus on speed than D/P, and tanking will almost cease to exist. I predict that Snorlax will leave OU, and Blissey will be the only true wall left.

[ImmunityBow]

97 base speed is just short of enough, I think. What made Garchomp so broken was really the 102 speed that outclasses the HUGE 100 tier. If you don't break 100, it's not enough, if you do, it's more than enough. Ononokusu's dominance really depends on its HP or having an exploitable typing or defense.

Aaekosu seems really minimaxed, that's better than Latios even...

I guess Nintendo realized that most little kids love having 4 attack Pokemon with nearly no support, I really hope the metagame doesn't just extend upon what D/P did. (D/P did have some stall team dominance in some areas)

[Silver]

without a doubtmy team will be:
daikenki
kojondo
warubiaru
doryuuzu
ononokusu
aakeosu

it may be shit but i'll manage

[Blade Flight]

This is MY dream team. ^_^

[SilentSentinel]

97 base speed is just short of enough, I think. What made Garchomp so broken was really the 102 speed that outclasses the HUGE 100 tier. If you don't break 100, it's not enough, if you do, it's more than enough. Ononokusu's dominance really depends on its HP or having an exploitable typing or defense.

Aaekosu seems really minimaxed, that's better than Latios even...

I guess Nintendo realized that most little kids love having 4 attack Pokemon with nearly no support, I really hope the metagame doesn't just extend upon what D/P did. (D/P did have some stall team dominance in some areas)

See, I was thinking that for a bit, but now that Ononokusu has Dragon Dance and Taunt, its slightly inferior base speed is no longer a concern, and it can circumvent potentially troublesome physical walls like Skarm. Dragon Dance/Outrage/Earthquake/Taunt is enough to run through an entire team, and Garchomp is easily OHKO'd by Outrage while Mold Breaker can erase any chance of Sand Veil hax.

[ImmunityBow]

I don't think it quite works out that way. Garchomp won't be switched in to Ononokusu, yes, but you're assuming you've already set up. What if Garchomp came out first? Came out at the same time? Then you've got a powerful dilemma on your hands. Dragon Dance and Taunt helps Ononokusu a lot but I still don't think 97 speed will be enough, especially with scarfed threats coming in on the Dragon Dance.

[Zenith]

Y'know, with all the talk about Shadow Tag Chandelar, it makes me wonder if banning certain abilities will be done more.

[SilentSentinel]

I don't think it quite works out that way. Garchomp won't be switched in to Ononokusu, yes, but you're assuming you've already set up. What if Garchomp came out first? Came out at the same time? Then you've got a powerful dilemma on your hands. Dragon Dance and Taunt helps Ononokusu a lot but I still don't think 97 speed will be enough, especially with scarfed threats coming in on the Dragon Dance.

I'm assuming that Ononokusu is already set up because of the occasions when you always bring in your set up sweeper; on things that would get owned if they stayed in, then you DD on the switch.

If Garchomp and Ononokusu come out at the same time, Garchomp will likely be running a Jolly Choice scarf set, as that is its most popular set. Adamant Scarfchomp is actually outsped by Jolly Choice Scarf Ononokusu, so it is forced to run Jolly, or always be 2HKO'd from Outrage by a scarf'd Kusu. A Choice Scarf Ononokusu is the best case scenario for Garchomp, and it will always lose from around 65ish percent of its health, leaving it open to an easy revenge kill. In this sense, Garchomp is not a true counter but merely a check that is easily finished right after. If Onokusu is a DD or Choice Bander, Chomp will take even more punishment, and Mold Breaker will stop it from having a chance to hax with Sand Veil.

If Chomp comes out first, you simply do what you did before it was moved to uber; switch a Steel type in once it gets locked into Outrage, or even better, OHKO it with a Choice Scarf Weavile Ice Punch. Garchomp has plenty of counters, and just as Garchomp won't switch into Kusu, Kusu won't come in on Garchomp.

Even if Ononokusu is not made Uber, it will be an absolute beast in the tier. If you look at the current Uber list, the magical 100 speed group is nearly nonexistent besides a few pokemon that are rarely seen like Manaphy and Mew. On the other hand, there are a ton of Base 90 pokemon and pokemon with Dragon weaknesses. Beyond this, the amount of Steel types that could conceivably wall the dragon shrinks down to basically just Forretress, who can be Taunted into oblivion, and Scizor, who lacks a super effective move and is severely dented by Earthquake. Genusekuto is probably its best counter in the uber environment.

[totodileman]

hahahaha. K...so I'm not saying anything for or against either Quinn or RP, but look here.

1st, to say...here are the sprites, normal and shiny.
http://stuff.veekun.com/bw-montage.png
http://stuff.veekun.com/bw-montage-back.png
http://stuff.veekun.com/bw-montage-shiny.png
http://stuff.veekun.com/bw-montage-back-shiny.png

now look and see, some of those are just revamps of old ones. Thats not really the big deal, but as old as it is, I'm gonna bring up "formalism". Look at Raikou and Entei's sprites. Tell me, do they look familiar There are other platinum and HGSS ones. I think I found the day that mixing and formalism are on the same page. Not anything for or against here, but I'm just throwing that out.

*I like the sprites, for the most part. The back ones are kinda small, but they will be blown up a bit.

[Silver]

OMFG
gallade looks awsome!

[SilentSentinel]

Yeah, I really like some of the new sprite poses.

In the end, there are some pretty sweet combos that will be happening.

Dusclops with the evolution stone item (1.5x to both defense stats for NFE pokemon) gains what is basically 220/220 defenses, with A base HP twice as high as Shuckle and recovery in the form of Pain Split.

Jaroda can be a good late-game sweeper with Perversity Leaf Storm and Hidden Power. It's movepool is so limited that coverage will be problematic though. This is really the only method for any representation of the starters to see major competitive usage.

[Merlin]

so i must ask this question after looking at the pictures...
what the heck is with the Afro Tauros???

also what's that pokemon after Arceus???
never really saw that one before...

[Blade Flight]

So on my Dream Team video on YouTube, I get this comment:

Do you know where to get shinpora? I've been looking in the desert for 3 hours now, and I still haven't found it! Can you tell me how to get it? Please tell me the time of day to catch, specific area in desert, season, and anything else needed to catch this thing. Oh! and its based on nazca.

1. I don't even own the games, and I'd BURN a Japanese copy (as in "light the cartridge on fire"), simply because of ruining the game too much. True, I got a White ROM, but I'm not playing it anymore and plan on deleting it, it's just not the same as waiting for the games. Also, I got the the first gym with great difficulty, and I got trashed. In a nutshell: If you have a Japanese copy of the games, you're a jackass who couldn't wait for the American versions. =| Sorry, but that's really how I feel.
2. How the fluck am I supposed to know how and where to find a creepy-birdy thingy when I only had four Pokemon in my White ROM (fire pig, cat, terrier dog, and hypnomunk)?
3. I KNEW Shinpora is based on Nazca...

To that commenter, I should have said the following:

SON...I AM DISAPPOINT.

[break]

I looove this game soo much im so glad you can see the full backs now!

[PokePoindexter]

Hello everyone.

Anyway, my take on the games:
Having been a longtime fan of using Defense/Support-based teams, I'm probably not going to do a lot of competitive battling if I play the game (and I'm guessing I'm one of the only members left in Pokemon-land who likes the 3rd generation above all others). But the plot of the game seems really cool, and I might give the CB world a chance. But I'm definitely not playing with an all-out offense team, so if that's what 5th generation OU is, then count me out (albeit I like that Ninetales gets Drought as an ability through the Dream World; that might make him viable in Standard, certainly more so than in the 4th gen).

[ImmunityBow]

Actually, there are some new superb defensive options now that I look at it more closely. New Dusclops, Dragon Tail and friends, and Red Card can stop sweeps, possibly. A Spikes stall team could probably get a lot of mileage out of all that new forced switch.

[SilentSentinel]

Yes, there are definitely some new weapons added to stall this time around. One thing that I'd really like to check out is how the use of Sandstorm will grow. This weather condition was powerful before, but with the additions of Sand Strength to boost power and Sand Throw to increase the speed of the usually slow Sandstorm pokemon, Sandstorm teams could become even greater threats, and Hippowdon and Tyranitar are quite difficult to take out unlike the relatively fragile Ninetales and Politoed.

[ImmunityBow]

One worrying thing is speed boost Blaziken though. Did anyone do a double take upon seeing that?

[Limkins]

Pokemon got stupid after 3rd gen tbh. All these new methods of battling and tactics is just forcing people to rethink what they're already accustomed to. Nintendo tried ti fix something that wasnt broken (ADV OU 3rd Gen) with D/P/P and failed badly cos they're shouldn't of. DP was a very defensive game bar Garchomp. Now they're trying to rectify that by making it much more offensive. Are they fucking stupid? I'll stick to Netbattle ADV thanks.

[Silver]

tadaa!!! one massive pic

kyreum cold form
do you think its true
they did it with giratina
pokemon grey's true mascot?

[SilentSentinel]

While I believe that Kyurem will have alternate forms in the 3rd title, that was actually made for a contest on deviantart, so it's not official.

[Silver]

oh come on RP
i'm not that stupid (although you might wonder if you knew me) that i think that it is offical
i found at least thirty (ten) different kyreum alternate forms
just asking ''do you think they will make an alternate form!''

[phantom bezerker]

according to serebii, there are no CURRENT alternate forms of Kyurem. but he is one hell of a pkmn. on the other hand, who did a double take upon seeing TWO legendary trios?

[zeroality]

That's cool.

People have been using B/W stuff on Pokemon Online for several months now so nothing is new at this point for most of the community.

[Tyrannigon64]

You know how there is a third game for every duo of Pokemon games (e.g. Emerald was the third for Ruby and Sapphire, Platinum for Diamond and Pear)? Well according to Bulbapedia, there won't be a third game for Black and White.

[Cyndadile]

You know how there is a third game for every duo of Pokemon games (e.g. Emerald was the third for Ruby and Sapphire, Platinum for Diamond and Pear)? Well according to Bulbapedia, there won't be a third game for Black and White.

I didn't see that anywhere. Besides, I only trust Serebii. Bulbapedia can be edited by anyone.

[SilentSentinel]

You know how there is a third game for every duo of Pokemon games (e.g. Emerald was the third for Ruby and Sapphire, Platinum for Diamond and Pear)? Well according to Bulbapedia, there won't be a third game for Black and White.

That thing on the bulbanews feed is from an arbitrary source. It directly contradicts an earlier statement given that said that there will be a third installment. Plus, you have to look at the internal coding of the games, which Serebii kindly dissects. For instance, the God Stone item. It exists in B/W coding, but cannot be obtained and has no apparent uses. It seems obvious that this item will be used in the third game in relation to Kyremu somehow, since Reshi and Zekky also both have a stone (light and dark stones).

[Tyrannigon64]

Now that you mention it, I do remember one post saying that it is still possible for a third installment. I don't know, but it is more likely for there to be no third here than it has been for the previous ones.

[Cyndadile]

Pokemon Gray!

[zeroality]

Besides, I only trust Serebii.

For news, I guess this is alright but for anything else - you really shouldn't.

coyotte508, the lead programmer on Pokemon Online, used the Pokemon information on Serebii for some Diamond/Pearl mechanics and ended up having to fix over 100 bugs because of it.

Joe does fix them as he goes along, if he finds out about them, but his track record for posting information on Pokemon mechanics is extremely unreliable. That isn't the only instance that I know of where Serebii has had inaccurate information either.

MetalKid had numerous errors in his Pokemon Database back during RSE in his Pokemon Program because he also used Serebii.

I even recall one instance where Serebii had a move listed that Blaziken could learn that didn't even exist, and another where he said Poliwrath could get Swords Dance and Hariyama could get Shadow Ball (in RSE). So yeah don't trust Serebii for anything other than news, imo.

[Cyndadile]

I don't really use it for anything else, so it suits my purposes.

[PokePoindexter]

I just use Smogon instead (which isn't always quite as reliable, but still usable).

[zeroality]

Smogon doesn't have 5th gen on their site do they?

They are quickly falling out of relevancy from what I can see.