Suggestions

[ImmunityBow]

Feel we missed something? Put it here. Just one rule:
- We're not changing or adding any more Pokemon (if the need is found then it will be announced)

Rules will be added to as necessary/suggested.

[NyteFyre]

I like some of the ideas that Zenith made in the questions forum. Also, i think it would be cool if the game had 2 playable characters that you can develop individual teams for.i'm not sure how it could work, but i like the idea.

[OddCrow]

Not sure if this is a suggestion, but I was wondering if we were going to implement the whole girlfriend/boyfriend aspect into the game.

[Quinn]

I posted this somwhere. I have no remembering of where, though someone already asked, I'm just wonderin, are we going to add the new area by Cianwood city?

[ImmunityBow]

1. Considering how much work it'd probably take though, I'm not so sure...

2. I don't see any really strong benefits from an intimacy system. Those kinds of systems are generally for games that don't have a silent protagonist, and with parties that involve multiple possible romantic interests. Pushing Cheryl/Male variant onto the player seems less like a fun choice and more like a completionist bleh system, especially if there are benefits to doing so.

3. I think adding the new area is fine if it fits in.

[Zenith]

I got a lot of ideas, but...I'm not exactly up for it yet. It's late, and my work ethic disappeared. Expect some stuff tomorrow.

[Zenith]

I was looking over the Light moves again, and I noticed a few things.

1. There is a serious gap in power for Special Light attacks. As of right now we have:
-Shine: 40/100, 30 PP, 20% chance of lowering opponent's evasiveness
-Flash: 50/100, 20 PP, +1 Priority (possibly overpowered, more on that later)
-Light Wave: 60/100, 20 PP, 10% chance of lowering opponent's accuracy
-Bright Slash: 60/Infinite, 20 PP (How is this Special?)
-Spectral Ray: 100/95, 10 PP, requires 1 turn charge in normal conditions (more on this one, as well)
-Wrath: 120/80, 5 PP 10% chance of making opponent flinch

Is anyone else seeing the lack of mid-high level attacks? Light doesn't have the same problem with physical attacks, as it has the likes of Holy Fist and Smite. As of right now, Special-based Light types (Dolphure, Coroona, Benengil, etc.) are really screwed right now. They either have to wait to get Wrath Spectral Ray to do any real damage, but that leaves them with either a strong but inaccurate attack or a nerfed version of Solarbeam (which has 120 BP, and loses its charge turn in sunlight). Dolphure doesn't learn either. Because Light Wave's BP is only 60, you would be able to do more damage with a non-STAB Ice Beam than a STAB Light Wave.

I can think of two ways to fix this. Option one, we increase Light Wave's BP to a more respectable 80. Option two, we create a new Special Light move with a BP of 90-95.

2. The new, improved Flash is really good...maybe too good. It is 10 more BP than other priority moves (except the rare ES), which wouldn't be as bad if it wasn't the only priority move available through a tech machine. It might need a power nerf...unless you don't get it until midgame.

3. Spectral Ray seems almost pointless right now. Its BP is only 100, compared to Solarbeam's 120. It only gets to Solarbeam's 120 in sunlight, but Solarbeam loses the need for a charge turn. Having a Solar Cell equipped takes away the charge turn, but increases the PP used. Solarbeam doesn't need an item equipped to do the same, and doesn't get the PP penalty. Anyone else seeing a trend?

4. Having Blinding Ray decrease accuracy by two levels is overpowered against computer opponents, since they won't switch out. Decreasing it by only one level would probably still be okay, as only two other moves are designed for doing that (with Flash changed), and Kinesis isn't very common.

[ImmunityBow]

1. There are other issues that types have. Say, Ground having Terra Strike as its only special move, or Ghost's main physical move being Doom Scythe. In Light's case, it's the lack of a high-powered accurate special attack. That's generally okay since that happens with a lot of types, especially before D/P (Bug, Grass, Fighting, there's lots). Of course in D/P 80 became the new standard, but it's not necessarily something we have to follow. Though Signal Beam is slightly more prevalent in Topaz, Silver Wind remains the standard Bug special move among other type disparities. I'd venture to say that Dolphure doesn't require a light-type move. Light fails to hit hard what resists Water (in particular Grass) and so even with a power boost to Light Wave Ice Beam would still be the superior option. Ice is just that good in canon games.

2. Yes, it might be too good. HM-wise I believe Flash has been relatively limited but from what I feel Flash is going to be the only really prevalent Light attacking move (Smite is good but its coverage is iffy unless you run Fire or possibly Psychic). In that case Flash is similar to Earthquake. But that's what the demo is for. Delay it until mid-game is entirely possible.

3. There are lots of pointless moves (competitively), even in canon. Frenzy Plant? etc. I would possibly enjoy seeing a more creative variation though, so feel free to suggest.

4. It being overpowered against computer opponents isn't very tangible, when you consider how simply overleveling, RBY Fire Punch Abra, Sleep, etc. breaks the game really easily. Is this really that big an issue?

[Zenith]

1. There are other issues that types have. Say, Ground having Terra Strike as its only special move, or Ghost's main physical move being Doom Scythe. In Light's case, it's the lack of a high-powered accurate special attack. That's generally okay since that happens with a lot of types, especially before D/P (Bug, Grass, Fighting, there's lots). Of course in D/P 80 became the new standard, but it's not necessarily something we have to follow. Though Signal Beam is slightly more prevalent in Topaz, Silver Wind remains the standard Bug special move among other type disparities. I'd venture to say that Dolphure doesn't require a light-type move. Light fails to hit hard what resists Water (in particular Grass) and so even with a power boost to Light Wave Ice Beam would still be the superior option. Ice is just that good in canon games.

Almost no Ground types are Special-based, and almost no Ghost types are Physical-based. There are already several Light types that seem Special-based or at least balanced: Dolphure, Coroona, Slowpriest, Sirene, and the Engil line. All of them end up worse off because of the lack of a strong, reliable Light more for them.

2. Yes, it might be too good. HM-wise I believe Flash has been relatively limited but from what I feel Flash is going to be the only really prevalent Light attacking move (Smite is good but its coverage is iffy unless you run Fire or possibly Psychic). In that case Flash is similar to Earthquake. But that's what the demo is for. Delay it until mid-game is entirely possible.

Smite will probably only be on physical-based stuff. Priority move or not, it's something to worry about when a type's main attacking move only has 50 BP when all of the other types have ones with 80-95.

3. There are lots of pointless moves (competitively), even in canon. Frenzy Plant? etc. I would possibly enjoy seeing a more creative variation though, so feel free to suggest.

It's not the fact that it's "pointless", it's the fact that it seems designed to be a Light version of Solarbeam, but is constantly a step behind it. And with the current Special Light moves, we'll be forced to use it more.

4. It being overpowered against computer opponents isn't very tangible, when you consider how simply overleveling, RBY Fire Punch Abra, Sleep, etc. breaks the game really easily. Is this really that big an issue?

Hm. Maybe. I mean, not only does it make you that much harder to hit ingame, it would basically force a switch against a human opponent unless they're running unblockable attacks. *shrugs*

Fire Punch Abra isn't overpowered anymore...

[Quinn]

This is a sprite sugestion:
1. Jirachi. We should have our own "custom" sprite of jirachi for our game. Since it is the main pokemon and all, I think it should be an exception. I tried to scratch sprite again, drawing a jirach. Another epic fail.
2. Scorchion. I love this sprite. I think it rocks and I wish I could sprite like that. That being said, I think we should edit it at least a bit. It is a Scorchion. Shouldnt it have flames? I first thought to have him completely on fire, but then I though just his body. Then I though again, and I came up with just his pincers, his mouth, and his stinger. Another idea was both what I just said, but also, a complete revamp. I think it should look more "strong" and "hardcore". What I thought his bad-ass look could be based off of could be "scorponok".
This is a big image so...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...viepicture.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8MWueppOIs...ideView_XL.jpg
I wish I could sprite, I would try to make one, though it would probably be an epic fail. Isn't the original spriter here? I think I read that from somewhere, and if you are, I personally think you should do this. If anyone else wants to though, go for it.

[neon.Barnacle]

I think we need to revamp Scorchion anyway so that it fits the new sprite size. The spriter can add your suggested features if he or she wishes.

[ImmunityBow]

Well, considering that Scorchion is a bug, and is about as big as Misticade, and bigger than the current Kraklaw, I think the size is fine. A revamp is welcome if someone's willing to do it. But then none of neon's sprites will be left ):

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

I actually like scorchion 'cause for once it's not got flames just 'cause it has scorch/flame in its name/is a fire tyhpe

[Quinn]

I could try to revamp it, though I dont think I could. I'm "not the most inclined spriter".

[Zenith]

Ooh...Coroona's moveset really illustrates what I was worried about. Does anyone else see a problem with giving something a move with 40 base power at Level 35, only to be outclassed 9 levels later with a move that only has 60? And because we don't have any other moves to use, we're stuck giving Coroona Spectral Ray right after Solarbeam...and even with Sunny Day and factoring in STAB, who's gonna use a BP 180 move that requires a charge turn when they can use a BP 120 move with no charge?

Was this moveset one of the earlier ones made? It seems like it needs a rework, and desperately needs a new Light move.

[Quinn]

Is anyone gonna see bout scorchion? Or should I try? I'm scared though...

[ImmunityBow]

@Zenith: I think you're taking the movesets a tad too seriously. What about Gyarados? It never really learns any useful moves until Dragon Dance, yet I know few people who would claim that its design is broken. With a little bit of a wait you can forgo Shine for Flamethrower, which gives you a move you can use for the rest of the game, if you need. And couldn't you say the same thing about, say Charizard? If you're going to learn Fire Blast, why would you tutor Blast Burn on later, which has a recharge turn for 30 BP more? Once you start breeding Whispaw gets some nice Egg Move options too.

@Quinn: Don't be scared. If it's bad we won't use it. If it's good we will.

[Quinn]

lol, define bad

[ImmunityBow]

We'll just have to see based on what you come up with!

[Cyndadile]

lol, define bad

We'll just have to see based on what you come up with!

You don't mean "We'll define bad based on your sprite", do you? Cuz thats kind of cruel.

Am I the only person who thinks that is what it looks like?

[ImmunityBow]

Well, "bad sprite" comes in many different contexts so ultimately every sprite will set the definition of what's good and bad.

[Zenith]

@Zenith: I think you're taking the movesets a tad too seriously. What about Gyarados? It never really learns any useful moves until Dragon Dance, yet I know few people who would claim that its design is broken. With a little bit of a wait you can forgo Shine for Flamethrower, which gives you a move you can use for the rest of the game, if you need. And couldn't you say the same thing about, say Charizard? If you're going to learn Fire Blast, why would you tutor Blast Burn on later, which has a recharge turn for 30 BP more? Once you start breeding Whispaw gets some nice Egg Move options too.

I'm just worried about some of them becoming worse because of movesets that are hard to work with. And why give Coroona Shine at Level 35 when you could give it to Whispaw at a lower level, when a 40 BP move makes more sense, and alludes to its evo being part Light?

On second thought, is it a good idea to make Whispaw evolve via Fire Stone? With Vulpix and Growlithe already in, and if Embear also uses one (don't know, but would-be version counterparts usually have similar evo styles), that gives us five Fire Stone evos in one region's 'Dex.

Charizard's case is different. Blast Burn isn't learned naturally, and generally isn't as good as Fire Blast. It just seems redundant having Coroona learn Shine, then making Light Wave, which completely outclasses Shine, the very next move it learns.

[ImmunityBow]

Maybe. Is anyone else for moving Shine to an earlier level?

[Cyndadile]

Maybe we could make it a topic of interest to test in the demo?

[ImmunityBow]

To be honest I don't think the demo would really provide a lot of insight into the matter. There won't even be access to a Fire Stone.

[zeroality]

Maybe. Is anyone else for moving Shine to an earlier level?

I'm fine with it. I don't think the move lists were designed by people with extensive experience in competitive battling so I don't know how much thought went into them in that regard.

[Quinn]

sorry I haven't been able to try a sprite. I've been at school for many hrs after it gets out to complete another project. I'm soooo tired....I could go to sleep right now, and here it is only 6.

[Cyndadile]

Awesome idea that will never happen: random weather effects. Your running on some random route, and it starts raining/hailing/getting really sunny, and that makes that effect happen in battle too. Then rain dance/sunny day/hail could be used in the overworld.

[Quinn]

Isn't that already in the game? If not, I'm really for the idea. I've also still been busy, but stuff is starting to lean

[BladeVap]

That already happened, starting with Gen 3...

[Quinn]

kinda, though I never saw really sunny except with groudon. I wanna see that as well as rain. Hail, maybe in some parts, and aren't there new ones in this game?

[Cyndadile]

That already happened, starting with Gen 3...

Not RANDOM. Certain routes ALWAYS had the effects.

[SilentSentinel]

The new weather effect is darkness, but dont you think that having random weather is... random? It doesn't make sense to have it anywhere.

[Quinn]

yah, but too a point. It would be weird to have it hailing on a beach. (Though I've seen that before )

[ImmunityBow]

Another thing that's kind of annoying is that you have to wait 10-15 seconds each round for the weather effect. Especially damaging ones like Hail and Sandstorm.

[Quinn]

I never knew that? I'm starting the scorchion sprite, though I'm calling it a night with that. I'm getting so annoyed with it, and I've only made the body and tail. I ask myself again if I'm cut out to do this?

[neon.Barnacle]

Don't get discouraged, Quinn. Even if we reject your sprite, it would still be good experience if you want to become a good spriter.

Also, regarding weather effects: yes, a few of the routes are described to have some sort of weather. Rain, sandstorm, and hail routes are all supposed to be in the game, but I'm not sure about sunny.

[Quinn]

thanx neon even sophmores get discouraged sometimes. Not much but sometimes, like today. (I'm gonna vent for a sec) in our video productions, me and havoc know a kid there. He's in my production group and he is a decent person, though he doesn't "hold" back." He doesn't give constructive critisim, but more of the just rude stuff. Like I made an animated logo (took 5 hrs to make) and he said, "It SUCKS, I HATE IT! YOU DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKE LOGO'S. I would have been happy if he said something like "I think you could change this and this and this, I like this and this, this should be taken off, add this", but no, he had to go all out. I told him to log on a computer and make one, and he wouldn't. He didn't know how, though he could talk trash on my work. I'm not pissed off at him himself, but more as what he said throughout the year to me, Havoc and some other kids in the class. He isn't bad though, he just needs to know when to shut his big mouth.

I haven't disected the region map, so I dont know how many beaches there are, but a sunny beach and a normal beach would be cool, and in some cases a rainy beach could be kinda cool once in a great blue moon. The eye of sand could use some heat wave days. I'm just tryin to brainstorm. I'm gonna post my sprite up in a sec.
Heres the sprite...so far.

[HavocWraith]

thanx neon even sophmores get discouraged sometimes. Not much but sometimes, like today. (I'm gonna vent for a sec) in our video productions, me and havoc know a kid there. He's in my production group and he is a decent person, though he doesn't "hold" back." He doesn't give constructive critisim, but more of the just rude stuff. Like I made an animated logo (took 5 hrs to make) and he said, "It SUCKS, I HATE IT! YOU DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKE LOGO'S. I would have been happy if he said something like "I think you could change this and this and this, I like this and this, this should be taken off, add this", but no, he had to go all out. I told him to log on a computer and make one, and he wouldn't. He didn't know how, though he could talk trash on my work. I'm not pissed off at him himself, but more as what he said throughout the year to me, Havoc and some other kids in the class. He isn't bad though, he just needs to know when to shut his big mouth.

I've had my fair share of run ins with him. I totally agree.

and for the sprite, not bad

[Zenith]

Haven't been on much the last few days. I blame Galaxy 2. Anyway...

Something I noticed about the Echoise line. Mermeidon learns Water Pulse, Bubblebeam, and Cascade within fourteen levels of each other (16, 27, 30). Echoise learns them all within eleven (why does Echoise learn WP 2 levels after its evo, anyway?). Casade's situational damage boost aside, the base power of those are 60, 65, and 60. Anyone else think it's a little redundant?